SS and Camaro.....is that a good thing?

Something I've been thinking about.

It's obvious where the SS sub-brand is going within Chevy. It will be a way to inject some flair into an utterly boring car line......and collect a heavy price premium at the same time.

I can see where this strategy would be useful in the Malibu Maxx, Monte Carlo, Silverado, etc., but does this really apply to Camaro?

Shouldn't even the most basic Camaro be sporty and desirable out of the box....without the need for an expensive package to create some sportiness.

And will we have a repeat of the 4th gen strategy:(....SS takes on Z/28 features (wheels, scoop, etc.), which are traditionally standard on Z/28, but Z/28 itself is excluded from, in order to justify a higher price for SS.

I guess the question I'm getting to is: Will the SS sub branding be good or bad for Camaro?

Originally posted by Z284ever
justify a higher price for SS.

I guess the question I'm getting to is: Will the SS sub branding be good or bad for Camaro?

I think it would be fine if it is substantially different pwertrain-wise from the Z28 model.

Such as small black / big block or something like that, but we know that won't happen. :no:

I'll have to agree.

To me (as an outsider), SS could go on any Chevy car, and it should denote a "better than base" model performance and refinement wise. But THAT'S ALL.

I think the Z/28 should be the "best available" in that model. Same goes with Z34, Z24, Z06, Z71(I know, it's a truck) and so on. These should be the primo PERFORMERS, regardless of refinement and luxury.

If the performance level were distinctly separated, I think SS and Z/28 could coexist on the 'maro - BUT ONLY THAT WAY. If it means a different engine for each, or a "detuned" model for the SS - so be it. But I think history shows that if SS and Z/28 share the same drivetrain there will be confusion at best as to which model means what to whom, and that will lead to discontent in the fold of buyers/loyalists.

There's my .025 (includes inflation for todays market :D)

Walks in.............sees the situation.............runs away in horror

Originally posted by formula79
Walks in.............sees the situation.............runs away in horror

I completely understand & sympathize! :D

This horse is so old there's nothing but bones left to beat.

Z28, SS, whatever. I really don't care anymore. Just give me my 5th gen! :)

Originally posted by Z28Wilson
This horse is so old there's nothing but bones left to beat.

Z28, SS, whatever. I really don't care anymore. Just give me my 5th gen! :)

Hey....I think this old horse still has long legs.

Originally posted by ProudPony
But I think history shows that if SS and Z/28 share the same drivetrain there will be confusion at best as to which model means what to whom, and that will lead to discontent in the fold of buyers/loyalists.

There's my .025 (includes inflation for todays market :D)

And that confusion is bad for the Camaro brand. An unfocused message is not the desired effect.

Originally posted by Z284ever
Something I've been thinking about.
...
And will we have a repeat of the 4th gen strategy:(....SS takes on Z/28 features (wheels, scoop, etc.), which are traditionally standard on Z/28, but Z/28 itself is excluded from, in order to justify a higher price for SS.

I guess the question I'm getting to is: Will the SS sub branding be good or bad for Camaro?
There are some people who completely hate that strategy for the Z/28. There was a time when Z/28 meant factory street/racer. I'd like to see that again.

Make the Z/28 more of a performance stripper ala the 1LE and make the SS the one with leather, T-tops, scoops and shiny rims.

I'd rather have a fast sleeper than a sluggy riced-out SS buggy.

Originally posted by formula79
Walks in.............sees the situation.............runs away in horror

Lol :D

I think that BOTH a suitable Z/28 and SS are VERY good for Camaro.


-Mike

Originally posted by Z28Wilson
This horse is so old there's nothing but bones left to beat.

Z28, SS, whatever. I really don't care anymore. Just give me my 5th gen! :) That's all I really care about too.

There should be no "SS". Like Corvette, Camaro should be a true sports machine in all variants (yes, even the V6 cars), and does not need any special "Super Sporty" model to separate performance models from the more plebian models.

Originally posted by jg95z28
There are some people who completely hate that strategy for the Z/28. There was a time when Z/28 meant factory street/racer. I'd like to see that again.

. :)

If you could make your living bashing the SS moniker Z284Ever would be a rich rich man.

......What exactly does the SS moniker mean?

It really seems to be a catch-all trim upgrade option.....with sometimes a modest increase in performance.......but always with an increase in $$.

Is this really what Chevy wants it to represent?:confused:

Originally posted by WERM
There should be no "SS." Like Corvette, Camaro should be a true sports machine in all variants (yes, even the V6 cars), and does not need any special "Super Sporty" model to separate performance models from the more plebian models.

Best post so far.

Originally posted by Z28Wilson
This horse is so old there's nothing but bones left to beat.

Z28, SS, whatever. I really don't care anymore. Just give me my 5th gen! :)

Are you sure there are still bones? I mean this topic has been hammered since I started coming here way over a year ago. :D

To be honest I’ve always stayed away from this debate. I never known enough details in the SS and Z28’s history to take part. But I do agree that the 4th gen kind of messed the order up. I like how the Vette has it with the Z06 as the top model. But at the same time I think the SS need to be represented. While I know I’m dreaming, my dream line up for the 5th gen looks like this.

Base- v6 , we know what it should be.
RS- Small V8 (4.8L LS1?), I’m thinking something like the Mustang GT.
SS- 5.7 LS1, Tons of options, go fast in style.
Z28- 6.0 LS1, Like the Z06, just a straight up street racer, hard top only, 6-speed only, bare bones all motor and fun!

I know this is all been said before, but you guys get the idea. Who knows maybe a GM executive will reads this and like it.

ah another z28 vs SS thread ..


Well my 2 cents coming from a driveway with 2 SS's 1 lt1 Z, and a 86 Iroc . I think there should be room for both in a 5th gen line , but the SS should be the top model all the power and all the comforts , Z28 should be a sub model of the ss as ss are made from Z28 to start with .


well i expect the flames from the z/28 crowd but , to each thier own

Originally posted by IZ28
Best post so far.

Yeah but by the way things are going with the SS name recently you know its going to go onto the Camaro again. I agree with you. I wish they would do it just like the Vette. But if they have to Slap SS on the side I think they should do it like my line up. The SS is not the top performer but the top optioned car. The "look cool, go-fast in comfort" Camaro. I don’t to see the Z28 with automatics, convertibles and power everything in the 5th gen. It should be option limited. The SS Camaro should fill those shoes not the Z28.

Originally posted by formula79
If you could make your living bashing the SS moniker Z284Ever would be a rich rich man.

Who's bashing? I see SS upgrades as an integral part of the Chevy line up.

The original question remains.
Applying the SS badge to pedestrian Chevs in order to spice them up makes sense.What about Camaro though? It ought to be (in a perfect world) pretty spicy even in base form.

Will the SS formula that Chevy is applying across the board (except on Corvette) really work on the next Camaro? Maybe, if the base model is so mundane no one wants it, and Z/28 is stripped of all it's traditional good bits.... will people be willing to belly up the cost for a Camaro SS.

I don't see how such a plan could be good for Camaro, (unless you're Ford).

Ok I’m just throwing ideas out. How many models of Camaro do we need? Its agreed we need a base model V6. But after that how many V8 models do we need?

Would everyone be happy here if we just had a V6 and a Z28? Or what if we just had an SS? Some want a mid level V8. Is this really needed?

There has to be a happy medium. We need a base model, a mid level performer for those who want more but not too much and a top performer. Or do we?

I think we need to focus on the future of these models and not what they were in the past. I think another side to the success of the 5th gen is how the non enthusiast see the different models. Most of these people are going to see the SS as the top model.

Would you guys rather see the Z28 dropped from the line up and replaced with the RS instead of it continuing to be the mid level model? I’m just ranting out some random ideas, what do you guys think.

Manufacturer Ratings
1967 (SS)
Z/28 302-290hp (8cyl-4V)
SS 327-210hp (8cyl-2V)
327-275hp (8cyl-4V)
350-295hp (8cyl-4V)
396-325hp (8cyl-4V)
396-375hp (8cyl-4V)*
1968 (SS)
Z/28 302-290hp (8cyl-4V)
SS 350-295hp (8cyl-4V)
396-325hp (8cyl-4V)
396-350hp (8cyl-4V)
396-375hp (8cyl-4V)*
1969 (SS)
Z/28 302-290hp (8cyl-4V)
SS 350-300hp (8cyl-4V)
396-325hp (8cyl-4V)
396-350hp (8cyl-4V)
396-375hp (8cyl-4V)*
1970 (SS)
Z/28 350-360hp (8cyl-4V)
SS 350-300hp (8cyl-4V)
396-350hp (8cyl-4V)
396-375hp (8cyl-4V)*
1971 (Z/28)
Z/28 350-330hp (8cyl-4V)*
SS 350-270hp (8cyl-4V)
402-300hp (8cyl-4V)
1972 (Z/28)
Z/28 350-255hp (8cyl-4V)*
SS 350-200hp (8cyl-2V)
402-240hp (8cyl-4V)
1973
Z/28 350-245hp (8cyl-4V)
SS N/A
1974
Z/28 350-245hp (8cyl-4V)
SS N/A
1975
Z/28 N/A
SS N/A
1976
Z/28 N/A
SS N/A
1977
Z/28 N/A
SS N/A
1978
Z28 350-185hp (8cyl-4V)
SS N/A
1979
Z28 350-175hp (8cyl-4V)
SS N/A
1980
Z28 350-190hp
SS N/A
1981
Z28 350-175hp
SS N/A
1982
Z28 5.0L (305CI) -165hp(CFFI)
SS N/A
1983
Z28 5.0L - 190hp(4bbl H.O.)
SS N/A
1984
Z28 5.0L - 190hp(4bbl H.O.)
SS N/A
1985
Z28 5.0L - 215HP(TPI)
IROC-Z 5.0L - 215HP(TPI)
SS N/A
1986
Z28 5.0L - 190HP(TPI)
IROC-Z 5.7L - 220HP(TPI)
SS N/A
1987
Z28 5.0L - 215HP(TPI)
IROC-Z 5.7L - 225HP(TPI)
SS N/A
1988
Z28 N/A
IROC-Z 5.7L - 230HP(TPI)
SS N/A
1989
Z28 N/A
IROC-Z 5.7L - 240HP(TPI)
SS N/A
1990
Z28 N/A
IROC-Z 5.7L - 245HP(TPI)
SS N/A
1991
Z28 5.7L - 245HP(TPI)
SS N/A
1992
Z28 5.7L - 245HP(TPI)
SS N/A
1993
Z28 5.7L - 275hp(LT1)
SS N/A
1994
Z28 5.7L - 275hp(LT1)
SS N/A
1995
Z28 5.7L - 285hp(LT1 CA A4)
SS N/A
1996 (SS)
mod_trans___eng.__CR____disp_______HP________TQ__F I__A4(S)_A4(O)_M6(S)_M6(O)
Z28ÊÊA4, M6 LT1ÊV8 10.5:1 5.7L (350) 275@5200 325@2400 MFI 2.73 3.23 3.42 -----
SSÊÊÊA4, M6Ê LT1 V8Ê10.5:1 5.7L (350) 305*@5200 335@2400ÊMFI 3.23 ----3.42 -----
*(315 w/optional exhaust)
1997 (SS)
mod_trans___eng.__CR____disp_______HP________TQ__F I__A4(S)_A4(O)_M6(S)_M6(O)
Z28ÊÊA4, M6 LT1ÊV8Ê10.5:1Ê5.7L (350) 285@5200 325@2400 MFI 2.73 3.23 3.42 ---
SSÊÊÊA4, M6ÊLT1ÊV8 10.5:1 5.7L (350)Ê305*@5200 335@2400 MFI 3.23 -----3.42 ---
*(315 w/optional exhaust)
1998 (SS)
mod_trans___eng.__CR____disp_______HP________TQ__F I__A4(S)_A4(O)_M6(S)_M6(O)ÊÊ
Z28ÊA4, M6 LS1 V8 10.1:1 5.7L (346)Ê305@5200 335@2400 MFI 2.73 3.23 3.42 ---
SSÊÊ A4, M6 LS1 V8 10.1:1 5.7L (346) 320*@5200Ê345@2400 MFI 3.23 -----3.42 ---
*(327 w/optional exhaust)
1999 (SS)
mod_trans___eng.__CR____disp_______HP________TQ__F I__A4(S)_A4(O)_M6(S)_M6(O)Ê
Z28ÊA4, M6 LS1 V8 10.1:1Ê5.7L (346) 305@5200 335@2400 MFI 2.73 3.23 3.42 ---
SSÊÊ A4, M6 LS1 V8 10.1:1 5.7L (346) 320*@5200 345@2400ÊMFIÊ3.23 -----3.42 ---
*(327 w/optional exhaust)
2000 (SS)
mod_trans___eng.__CR____disp_______HP________TQ__F I__A4(S)_A4(O)_M6(S)_M6(O)Ê
Z28Ê A4, M6 LS1 V8 10.1:1 5.7L (346) 305@5200 335@2400ÊMFI 2.73 3.23 3.42 ---
SSÊÊ A4, M6 LS1 V8Ê10.1:1 5.7L (346) 320*@5200Ê345@2400 MFI 3.23 -----3.42 ---
*(327 w/optional exhaust)
2001 (SS)
mod_trans___eng.__CR____disp_______HP________TQ__F I__A4(S)_A4(O)_M6(S)_M6(O)Ê
Z28Ê A4, M6 LS1ÊV8 10.1:1 5.7L (346) 310@5200 340@4000 MFIÊ2.73 3.23 3.42 ----
SSÊÊ A4, M6 LS1 V8 10.1:1 5.7L (346) 325*@5200 350@4000 MFI 3.23 -----3.42 ---
*(335 w/optional exhaust)
2002 (SS)
mod_trans___eng.__CR____disp_______HP________TQ__F I__A4(S)_A4(O)_M6(S)_M6(O)Ê
Z28Ê A4, M6ÊLS1 V8 10.1:1 5.7L (346) 310@5200 340@4000 MFI 2.73 3.23 3.42 ---
SSÊÊ A4, M6 LS1ÊV8Ê10.1:1Ê5.7L (346) 325*@5200Ê350@4000 MFI 3.23 -----3.42 ---
*(345 w/optional exhaust and intake lid)


11-2 by my count in favor of SS

can you repost 96 -up on my pc it is all garbled..thanks

Here's some more fuel to the fire....

In the article about the Malibu Max SS one of the GM execs said that SS was traditionaly a family car with more power and performance.

Personally, I'd go for Z/28 road racer with the SS getting the luxury muscle treatment. If that was the case, I'm sure you'd see more SS on the road than Z/28.


It's official now....this is the topic that will never die.

SS stands for Super Sport. I think its a bit late to ask whether or not the SS moniker is good for the camaro..its been around since the late sixties when the Camaro was originally introduced!!!!!

Its a tradition!!!

Originally posted by stars1010
Yeah but by the way things are going with the SS name recently you know its going to go onto the Camaro again. I agree with you. I wish they would do it just like the Vette. But if they have to Slap SS on the side I think they should do it like my line up. The SS is not the top performer but the top optioned car. The "look cool, go-fast in comfort" Camaro. I don’t to see the Z28 with automatics, convertibles and power everything in the 5th gen. It should be option limited. The SS Camaro should fill those shoes not the Z28.

And I agree with you, as a matter of fact, I'd like to see that lineup almost exactly the way you posted. :) I've been posting something similar for a while also.

danno02SS, I don't understand your manufacturer ratings post. The Z28 was the top Camaro more years than the SS and the 1st Gen Z28's HP was rated lower than the SS when it really had MORE HP, (while also handling better, braking better, introducing racing stripes to the Camaro and cowl hoods, and also being the more expensive option) and you claim the SS "wins" LOL?? DON'T think so!! There is so much you and others don't know about the Z28 and its history. I ask you which Camaro won the championships, became a legend, got called "The Ultimate Camaro," and "The closest thing to a Corvette yet??" I sure hope you know which Camaro it was, because I definetly know which it wasn't. ;)

Originally posted by stars1010
While I know I’m dreaming, my dream line up for the 5th gen looks like this.

Base- v6 , we know what it should be.
RS- Small V8 (4.8L LS1?), I’m thinking something like the Mustang GT.
SS- 5.7 LS1, Tons of options, go fast in style.
Z28- 6.0 LS1, Like the Z06, just a straight up street racer, hard top only, 6-speed only, bare bones all motor and fun!

I know this is all been said before, but you guys get the idea. Who knows maybe a GM executive will reads this and like it.

1. Do we really know what a base V6 should be? There's a choice between another 200hp pushrod slug and a pricier DOHC 250hp car that would actually be competitive. Choose the most affordable and you're back to where the V6 F4 left off. Picking the 24-valve option would make for a more expensive base model, and define the packaging of the car in a negative way.

2. Another underpowered Camaro RS idea - bring back a weak V8 option, just like back in good old 1989. This cheap insurance, cheap engine nonsense is wearing thin.

3. Demoting the SS to the role of a loaded, "disco cruiser" is another example of 1980s thinking. Does anybody want a high visual effect, but lower performance Camaro wearing the SS badge? Considering that the SS was the success story in the long decline of the F-body, marketing realities should be placed ahead of nostalgia.

4. Making the Z28 a Camaro "Z06" is a rotten idea as well. The Z06 is a great car, but making the least desirable body style the exclusive performance leader is just plain stupid. Better yet, why would an automatic transmission option make any vehicle less of a performance car?

Originally posted by redzed
1. Do we really know what a base V6 should be?

I think that I might. The base V6 for a Camaro should be an engine with a soul. Maybe a 24V V6 might be deemed too expensive and too hard to package....fair enough. But a cam in block design can also be inspiring and not mearly chosen because it's the cheapest prime mover available.

My bet would be on the upcoming 3.9L HV V6. Give me a smooth revving 220-250HP base motor, a chassis with great dynamics, and sheetmetal /proportions with gorgeous looks and you've got the recipe for an exciting and very desirable entry level base model.

Bottom line for me personally? I buy a 5th Gen if it looks great, has great performance and it is priced right. Give me bang for the buck baby. I'm not going to lose sleep over something so superficial as which badge belongs on which car.

Originally posted by redzed
3. Demoting the SS to the role of a loaded, "disco cruiser" is another example of 1980s thinking. Does anybody want a high visual effect, but lower performance Camaro wearing the SS badge? Considering that the SS was the success story in the long decline of the F-body, marketing realities should be placed ahead of nostalgia.


Ummm, not that I was there, but Disco was the '70's dude. 80's were the power-ballad/BigHair Band days! :metal:

Anyways, as for your question about anybody wanting "a high visual effect, but lower performance Camaro...", I've got an absolutely positive and emphatic YES for you. I don't think SS belongs on a V6, but I can site numerous models with "peppy appearance packages" laid over the same lame drivetrain game. The most recent and closest situation to the Camaro would be the Mustang's "Pony Edition" which we have discussed in other forums.

There were sufficient special orders and dealer requests for V6 cars equipped with GT hoodscoops, GT rims, fog lamps, rear spoilers, etc. that Ford decided to make it an appearance package. The Pony Edition is a basic V6 car in every way, with the outside look of a GT (in every way). The only ways to tell a Pony V6 from a real GT is to look for dual exhausts on the GT, and the "pony-in-motion" graphics on the doors of the Pony edition.

I feel that there is a very lucrative market for such a car, whether is a girl thing, teen thing, economic thing, or just the person's individual taste... some people simply DON'T WANT A V8, but they do want the muscular look. And as we well know, V6's constitute the majority of Mustang sales, and was also a big percentage of F-car sales too. I see far more V6 Camaros on a daily basis than I do SS's or Z28's. To neglect these buyers in any way (i.e. not offer them the cars/parts they are willing to pay for) would be foolish IMO, especially when the parts (scoops, spoilers, stripes, seats, interior appointments, etc) are already designed, tooled, and available.

You make a great point Proud. I think plenty of people are willing to pay money for the perception of performance, in a stylish, comfortable package.

You used the "Pony" analogy and I'll give you another. Mid to late '80s IROC-Z's. They weren't all fast. In fact they didn't even all have TPI.

Even most of the TPI equipped IROCs and Trans Ams/Formulas weren't all that fast. Unless you ordered the proper options, your Tuned Port IROC came with a "peanut" cam, 2.73 rear gear, drum brakes, auto trans etc. Most would combine them with T-Tops and power everything.

They were slow....but they looked and sounded good and sold like hotcakes.

Originally posted by redzed
1. Do we really know what a base V6 should be? There's a choice between another 200hp pushrod slug and a pricier DOHC 250hp car that would actually be competitive. Choose the most affordable and you're back to where the V6 F4 left off. Picking the 24-valve option would make for a more expensive base model, and define the packaging of the car in a negative way.

I wasn’t really referring to the motor. I wasn’t specific enough. I was thinking more package. This car need to be a solid desirable base car. Like the Mustang V6 is now. Its need to have plenty of options without a huge price. I don’t think we should worry about the base motors output. How many high school girls asking daddy for a mustang when they turn 16 care about power. Its all about looking cute for them. And at the same time we need it to have that "cool" effect. The 5th gen needs to have a bad ass base car to succeed. Do you see where I going with this?

Originally posted by redzed
2. Another underpowered Camaro RS idea - bring back a weak V8 option, just like back in good old 1989. This cheap insurance, cheap engine nonsense is wearing thin.

I never said anything about insurance or expense of the motor. While I know RedPlanet said there is a fat change we will have a mid range V8 model, I think it could effectively fit in the line up. I base my argument With what the Mustang GT does. Its the simple idea of a V8 without all the power. You have to realize cars sell these days from their "cool" factor. V8s are cool. But not everyone want tire melting power. But at the same time I almost agree with you. If I was going to drop a model from the line up it would be the RS I've talked about. However I would replace it with the SS in a sense.

Originally posted by redzed
3. Demoting the SS to the role of a loaded, "disco cruiser" is another example of 1980s thinking. Does anybody want a high visual effect, but lower performance Camaro wearing the SS badge? Considering that the SS was the success story in the long decline of the F-body, marketing realities should be placed ahead of nostalgia.

Maybe its because I'm young (19) and I've only been around in the car scene for the past few years but that’s exactly what I see the SS badge as. Up graded performance and style but not the top of the line performer. Oh and by the way I don’t know anything about disco. I grew up in the late 80s / early 90s with bad hip hop and grunge rock.:metal:

Originally posted by redzed
4. Making the Z28 a Camaro "Z06" is a rotten idea as well. The Z06 is a great car, but making the least desirable body style the exclusive performance leader is just plain stupid. Better yet, why would an automatic transmission option make any vehicle less of a performance car?

Ok this is where I just plain disagree with you. First of all why is the Z28 the least desirable body style? Are you holding out on us? Have you seen what the next Z28 looks like? I think your stuck on the 4th gen line up here. I'm hoping the 5th gen Z28 will have sexy styling and be distinguishable from the base car. Even if its just a front fascia, cowl hood and spoiler. I know I keep going back to the Mustang as comparison but their line up formula seems to work. Each car is distinguishable over at Ford. Each Camaro needs to have its own look (at least their own hood).

As I'm sure you know the Z06 only comes in hard top form, only with a 6-speed. I'm not saying automatics cant be performers or anything less. I know they are great for drag racing and very consistent. But as a road racer as the Z06 is and what I want the next Z28 to be you need a 6-speed. They are just seen as the sportier option. Ok I feel like I’m having a hard time getting my idea across.

Tell me what do you see the Z06 as? I see it as the upgraded style. Upgraded motor. Upgraded brakes and suspension. The top of the line car. The one everyone wants. it’s the “Z” car. Less frills more fun. I see no reason why the next Z28 cant be this.

I just think it would be dumb to have the top of the line Vette sitting on the lot in ‘07 being a “Z’ car and the top of the line Camaro being the SS. Wouldn’t this cause confusion with buyers? Why is the "Z" not the top of the line for both car lines is what I would think. The Z28 on the 5th gen should be top car no matter what it was in the past. The SS shouldn’t be looked at like the second in line though. But more as serving a different purpose.

Originally posted by stars1010








Ok I feel like I’m having a hard tikme getting my idea across.



I think you're getting your idea across very effectively....and I pretty much agree with everything that you just said.:thumb:

Originally posted by Z284ever
I think you're getting your idea across very effectively....and I pretty much agree with everything that you just said.:thumb:

thanks buddy!;)

I try, I always get so scatter brianed when I make a long post.:rolleyes:

Originally posted by Doug Harden
......What exactly does the SS moniker mean?

It really seems to be a catch-all trim upgrade option.....with sometimes a modest increase in performance.......but always with an increase in $$.

Is this really what Chevy wants it to represent?:confused:

Good question. I have the feeling that Chevy is currently in the process of defining it to itself. I get the impression that it will become the volume Chevy performance/trim package, as "GT" is to Ford and "R/T" is to Dodge.

In the '60s it used to mean a trim upgrade at a negligible price from the base model with the option of upgraded performance.

According to GM literature...todays' "SS" will mean upgraded trim, wheels, and performance from the base model but it appears it will be at a more than negligible price.

NOTE: In both cases, it upgrades the base model.

Yup stars1010, IMO you got it down dude.

SS is the designation for a "sportier" model on all the regular Chevrolets, this should not be the all-out top performance Camaro. Z06 for the Corvette and Z28 for the Camaro. Lets leave all the revisionist name placing in the 4th Gen. It should be Base, RS, SS, and then Z28. All with their own purpose, looks, characteristics, and personality.

Originally posted by redzed

4. Making the Z28 a Camaro "Z06" is a rotten idea as well. The Z06 is a great car, but making the least desirable body style the exclusive performance leader is just plain stupid. Better yet, why would an automatic transmission option make any vehicle less of a performance car?

Why have a high performance car designed for a low performance driver? And to all those guys that say "consistency in Drag racing", just what exactly do you do for those 13 seconds driving in a straight line with your right foot planted on the floor? I dunno...sounds pretty dull to me. Just my personal opinion.

Originally posted by Z284ever
Good question. I have the feeling that Chevy is currently in the process of defining it to itself. I get the impression that it will become the volume Chevy performance/trim package, as "GT" is to Ford and "R/T" is to Dodge.

In the '60s it used to mean a trim upgrade at a negligible price from the base model with the option of upgraded performance.

According to GM literature...todays' "SS" will mean upgraded trim, wheels, and performance from the base model but it appears it will be at a more than negligible price.

NOTE: In both cases, it upgrades the base model.

If this is such a big deal and a smack to the SS name, can you explain how Z28 has ever been anything different?

Originally posted by Darth Xed
If this is such a big deal and a smack to the SS name, can you explain how Z28 has ever been anything different?

Didn't the Z/28 usually have a unique engine not available in other Camaros?

Originally posted by Darth Xed
If this is such a big deal and a smack to the SS name, can you explain how Z28 has ever been anything different?

I think that you are misunderstanding me Darth. This is what SS was and is . I'm not saying it's a "smack" to the SS name......on the contrary. As a GM representative said at the Malibu Maxx SS intro......."SS has always been a way for family cars to get performance" ( or words to that affect).

I think the SS strategy Chevy will be using is probably a good one.

I'm just not sure if this strategy will have a good effect or bad effect on a sporty model like the next Camaro...

It's one thing to spruce up a car with no sporty pretentions, but Camaro may need to be handled differently.

The only way I could see it working for Camaro, is if the base Camaro has little sportiness (which IMO would be a mistake), and if the Z/28 once again loses it's focus and becomes the "standard V8" Camaro, (also a mistake).

I guess what I'm trying to say is, don't diminish the Camaro brand, just to make the SS strategy work on it

Originally posted by Z284ever
I think that you are misunderstanding me Darth. This is what SS was and is . I'm not saying it's a "smack" to the SS name......on the contrary. As a GM representative said at the Malibu Maxx SS intro......."SS has always been a way for family cars to get performance" ( or words to that affect).

I think the SS strategy Chevy will be using is probably a good one.

I'm just not sure if this strategy will have a good effect or bad effect on a sporty model like the next Camaro...


Well, seriously, if SS is and always was "just an upgrade from the base car"... how has the Z28 ever been different?

Both have always been an uprade to the base car... they are all Camaros .

If you wan to say "Z28" has only been on Camaros, while SS has been on others cars... well, then I'll present Z24, Z26, and Z34... same story.



I guess I am very on the fence with this... I perfer the Z28 name, which is why I find it odd to be arguing for the "other side", but there are a lot of mis-truths that keep getting said on this subject.

Originally posted by Darth Xed
[B]Well, seriously, if SS is and always was "just an upgrade from the base car"... how has the Z28 ever been different?

Darth, don't you think that Z/28 has always represented a more comprehensive and focused performance package that could be added to an already sporty car? Where SS was a trim and (sometimes) performance package on standard passenger cars and trucks.

The Z/28 can't just be a V8 option, which for the past generation it was. There needs to be a smaller HP or smaller cube V8 below the Z/28 (RS, anyone) so the Z can become what the 1LE took over from the Z in the first place. The SS was an even higher cube or hp motor from the base V8.

A next generation of the Vortec-based alum motors would be a good base.

Originally posted by bulldoguav
The Z/28 can't just be a V8 option, which for the past generation it was. There needs to be a smaller HP or smaller cube V8 below the Z/28 (RS, anyone) so the Z can become what the 1LE took over from the Z in the first place. The SS was an even higher cube or hp motor from the base V8.

A next generation of the Vortec-based alum motors would be a good base.

no:alert:

Originally posted by stars1010
no:alert:

Why not? Cheap, already made for the trucks.

Or we can make a whole new engine? :chaching:

Originally posted by bulldoguav
The Z/28 can't just be a V8 option, which for the past generation it was. There needs to be a smaller HP or smaller cube V8 below the Z/28 (RS, anyone) so the Z can become what the 1LE took over from the Z in the first place. The SS was an even higher cube or hp motor from the base V8.

A next generation of the Vortec-based alum motors would be a good base.

Ok let me exaggerate on my “NO!”.

The Z28 and SS will most likely get the same size motor like the 4th gen. From what I understand there will be only be enough funds to do two size motors for the 5th gen at first. A V6 and a V8. So I guess this kill my RS idea, but that’s ok. With the base car, SS and Z28 marketed right it should be ok.

Furthermore I think they should be able to do LS1 and LS6 in the Camaro just like they vette. And again I think we should look at he Z28 as the higher performer. Not necessarily always the more desirable car for ever one just serving a different purpose.

Just like the Silverado SS, It has functionality. The SS Camaro should be the V8 camaro you can get any option on, almost the luxury version. The Z28 should be uncompromising performance. Built to race. The SS built to look cool and go fast.

The Z28 should have the LS6 with more hp than the LS1 SS. We should stop looking at each model as which one is the "top" camaro because each should serve a different purpose. Once again I think you guys who still think the SS is the top car should consider the vette line up.

The Z06 is the top performing car. THE "Z" CAR IS THE PERFORMANCE VERSION. I still think if we have an SS camaro as the top performance version it could confuse buyers. Top optioned car, top in comfort, top in style in a sense, not top in balls to the wall performance!

BTW I wouldn’t mind seeing the RS in a V6 version. Think about the V6 mustang “pony” version. Looks cool but still cost less because of a V6. For the people who don’t care about performance or cant afford it, but still want style. At the same time I don’t want it to copy the style of the SS or Z28. If they do an RS like I’m describing here It should have its own look.

I really want to see every model in the 5th gens line up have its own style and personality. I’m really getting into this discussion of how the line up should be and where each name should fall. If I get some more time maybe Ill type up some specifics for what I’d like to see in ’07.

Originally posted by WERM
Why have a high performance car designed for a low performance driver? And to all those guys that say "consistency in Drag racing", just what exactly do you do for those 13 seconds driving in a straight line with your right foot planted on the floor? I dunno...sounds pretty dull to me. Just my personal opinion.

I'm all for a manual transmission on a little traveled country road, but the real world is different. Catch a redlight at a series of uphill stops in San Franciso, or get stuck in the rush-hour traffic around D.C.-Baltimore and you'd be begging for an automatic.

If the LS-1 F-bodies proved anything, its that automatics don't have to sacrifice any performance. More importantly for the future, modern chassis electronics even take the risk out of driving a slushbox flat out in corners.

To me, a straight up manual transmission is an anachronism. Even F1 cars haven't used a conventional shifter in years. In the GM context, where buying a 6-speed Corvette actually costs you $800 extra, a manual transmission is a stupid buy. More important, with asbestos gone, modern clutch facing aren't very tough anymore. Overall, a manual will cost more over the life of a car, and you'll still be stuck rowing the shifter.

That said, the C5 Z06 could never have been an automatic car because it had too much torque. However, with the availability of high-torque-capacity automatics expanding, there is no reason why any expensive 400+hp car should have an old fashioned manual. If there isn't a suitable torque converter for the task, why can't we at least have a paddle-shift SMG?

Originally posted by redzed
I'm all for a manual transmission on a little traveled country road, but the real world is different. Catch a redlight at a series of uphill stops in San Franciso, or get stuck in the rush-hour traffic around D.C.-Baltimore and you'd be begging for an automatic.

Ok in my line up the Z28 only has a 6 speed. If you don’t want a performance oriented car buy the SS for the comfort and the auto.

Originally posted by redzed
If the LS-1 F-bodies proved anything, its that automatics don't have to sacrifice any performance. More importantly for the future, modern chassis electronics even take the risk out of driving a slushbox flat out in corners.

Agreed, but buy the SS.

Originally posted by redzed
To me, a straight up manual transmission is an anachronism. Even F1 cars haven't used a conventional shifter in years. In the GM context, where buying a 6-speed Corvette actually costs you $800 extra, a manual transmission is a stupid buy. More important, with asbestos gone, modern clutch facing aren't very tough anymore. Overall, a manual will cost more over the life of a car, and you'll still be stuck rowing the shifter.

That said, the C5 Z06 could never have been an automatic car because it had too much torque. However, with the availability of high-torque-capacity automatics expanding, there is no reason why any expensive 400+hp car should have an old fashioned manual. If there isn't a suitable torque converter for the task, why can't we at least have a paddle-shift SMG?

Do you actually see the Camaro getting a paddle shifter? My line up makes the most sense. Do you have something wrong with manuals? Old fashion? I think they are fun. I have nothing against autos, they just aren’t my thing.

I can see why you would want every model to have an auto for sales. But in my mind I don’t want the Z28 to be the high volume car. The Z06 isn’t getting hurt in sales for what it is, I don’t think the next Z28 should be any different.

Originally posted by redzed
I'm all for a manual transmission on a little traveled country road, but the real world is different. Catch a redlight at a series of uphill stops in San Franciso, or get stuck in the rush-hour traffic around D.C.-Baltimore and you'd be begging for an automatic.

I'm from there. I know what its like. I still prefer a Manual. It's hardly any worse in traffic unless you want to talk on the phone or eat (verboten in my car). Mostly, it seems like the guys who drive automatics are the ones who bitch about manuals in traffic. :confused:

In regards to all the other technology that can shift for me - all it does is dilute the experience of driving . People still use sailboats when powerboats are faster. Why? To experience more, to do more - to get more out of it. If you really, truly liked driving, wouldn't you want more of it? Wouldn't you want to be more in control? Shouldn't a car that promises driving nirvana at least offer this element of control? :confused:

When they come out with robotic steering coupled with adaptive speed control, will you still want to drive?

I will. I like driving. I like shifting. I like turning. I like braking. Hell, I like coasting at 3600 RPM just because it sounds cool. I like being able to make butter smooth shifts imperceptible to my passenger or nail second and kick the rear out a bit depending on my mood. An anacronism? Perhaps, but I love every bit of it.

Originally posted by ProudPony


There were sufficient special orders and dealer requests for V6 cars equipped with GT hoodscoops, GT rims, fog lamps, rear spoilers, etc. that Ford decided to make it an appearance package. The Pony Edition is a basic V6 car in every way, with the outside look of a GT (in every way). The only ways to tell a Pony V6 from a real GT is to look for dual exhausts on the GT, and the "pony-in-motion" graphics on the doors of the Pony edition.

I feel that there is a very lucrative market for such a car, whether is a girl thing, teen thing, economic thing, or just the person's individual taste... some people simply DON'T WANT A V8, but they do want the muscular look. And as we well know, V6's constitute the majority of Mustang sales, and was also a big percentage of F-car sales too. I see far more V6 Camaros on a daily basis than I do SS's or Z28's. To neglect these buyers in any way (i.e. not offer them the cars/parts they are willing to pay for) would be foolish IMO, especially when the parts (scoops, spoilers, stripes, seats, interior appointments, etc) are already designed, tooled, and available.

I think my arguement swings the other way. There is a very convincing place in the market for an "understated" performance car. If you haven't notice, the current AMG Mercedes aren't "Miami-Vice" era pimpmobiles anymore. While I think performance should always be denoted in some way, subtle badging and visuals always have the most "expensive-looking" and classy effect. "Rainbow" shaped spoiler aside, the Camaro SS was undeniably understated.

On the other hand, a juiced up Pony is okay with me. If anywhere, big decals, fake scoops and spoilers belong on the cheapest cars in a model-range. Similarly, Chevy made the right move by keeping the tacky and expensive "appearance package" off the SS.

Originally posted by Z284ever
Darth, don't you think that Z/28 has always represented a more comprehensive and focused performance package that could be added to an already sporty car? Where SS was a trim and (sometimes) performance package on standard passenger cars and trucks.

Not really.

Like I said I think Chevy is using "SS" today as it used "Z##" the last decade and a half. Was Z24, Z26, or (especially, because of the direct comaprison) Z34 used in any different way that SS is used today and presumably the near future?

Also, I'd love to know how the 3rd genners can be against a Camaro SS being above Z28, but have absolutely nothing against the IROC-Z designation which is the exact same thing to the 3rd Gen that the SS was to the 4th Gen!

My guess would be that the 5th gets the following engines:
base: 3.9L 60° V6 230HP
Z28: 6.0L LS2 V8 375HP
SS: 6.0L LS2 V8 390HP

if there is a midrange engine (which there needs to be since the gap between the base and Z is huge) I think it would be better to have a S/C V6

Lets say the mid engine would be either a 300HP 4.8L V8 or a 300HP supercharged 3800, 60° 3.5L or 3.9L.

current Z28 and SS owners and V8 fans will most likly go with the 6.0L Z28 or SS, why would any of us want the 6.0L over a 4.8 or 5.3????? the bigger V8 would probably cost only $1000 more.

No the supercharged or turbo V6 would offer that same level of performance but draw in a new crowd of buyers. I see it pulling in more "tuner" people. Plus it would help target the people that are affraid of a V8, many people still think that V8 = sky high insurance and terrible gas milage. I told one of my friends recently that I just got a Camaro SS with a 5.7L V8 and he said "whats that get like 15mpg?" he was shock when I told him it got 19 city 28 hwy. There is still a large ignorant group of people out there.

Originally posted by Darth Xed

Also, I'd love to know how the 3rd genners can be against a Camaro SS being above Z28, but have absolutely nothing against the IROC-Z designation which is the exact same thing to the 3rd Gen that the SS was to the 4th Gen! \

Believe me, I had a huge problem with the Camaro's top package being named after a silly, made for TV race series back then. So to say "I have absolutely nothing against the IROC-Z designation" is not true.

The SS has ALWAYS gotten the higher HP. Always. That won't change, especially with GM's new horrible SS program.

The Z/28 was originally the lighter, higher strung motor. I'm all for making the Z/28 the new 1LE. Hell, give us the option of no rear seat.

And to be honest, I think the Z should come as a hardtop coupe only, with SFCs (if indeed it is still a unibody), live rear axle, a radio delete option (hell, they should all come with this) and make A/C optional, not standard.

It should be the true street/strip/autocross car it was always MEANT to be.

No the SS has not always had higher HP. TQ yes, HP no. While the Z28 also had better handling, better braking, cooler looks, oh it just goes on. No1 that knows what really knows what went on back then goes by what the Z28 and some other cars were "rated" at. The Z28 option costed more too.

And DXed, yes the IROC-Z was almost the same thing as what the SS is now. But it was a new designation which commerated the Camaro Z28 being used as the car of choice of the IROC races that still acknowledged that the car was an IROC-Z28, a better, upgraded Z28. It did not take a name from way back that meant something completely different and all of a sudden become an option to make the Z28 look like a mid-range nothing compared to the IROC-Z, like what the SS did to the Z28. It was like there were 2 top models, a Z28 or an upgraded Z28. Then it just made sense to keep the better upgraded Z28 only in 88-90. The problem is using the SS name and not giving the Z28 the recognition it deserves.

Originally posted by bulldoguav

The Z/28 was originally the lighter, higher strung motor. I'm all for making the Z/28 the new 1LE. Hell, give us the option of no rear seat.

And to be honest, I think the Z should come as a hardtop coupe only, with SFCs (if indeed it is still a unibody), live rear axle, a radio delete option (hell, they should all come with this) and make A/C optional, not standard.

It should be the true street/strip/autocross car it was always MEANT to be.

I'm with you....except for the live rear axle part.

Originally posted by IZ28
No the SS has not always had higher HP. TQ yes, HP no. While the Z28 also had better handling, better braking, cooler looks, oh it just goes on. No1 that knows what really knows what went on back then goes by what the Z28 and some other cars were "rated" at. The Z28 option costed more too.

And DXed, yes the IROC-Z was almost the same thing as what the SS is now. But it was a new designation which commerated the Camaro Z28 being used as the car of choice of the IROC races that still acknowledged that the car was an IROC-Z28, a better, upgraded Z28. It did not take a name from way back that meant something completely different and all of a sudden become an option to make the Z28 look like a mid-range nothing compared to the IROC-Z, like what the SS did to the Z28. It was like there were 2 top models, a Z28 or an upgraded Z28. Then it just made sense to keep the better upgraded Z28 only in 88-90. The problem is using the SS name and not giving the Z28 the recognition it deserves.

Only 71 and 72 had lower HP numbers for the SS versus the Z/28, and even then it was only about 15 hp.

The live axle is cheaper, and easier to replace.

Originally posted by jg95z28
Make the Z/28 more of a performance stripper ala the 1LE and make the SS the one with leather, T-tops, scoops and shiny rims.

I'd rather have a fast sleeper than a sluggy riced-out SS buggy.
Here, Here!!:D

Originally posted by bulldoguav
Only 71 and 72 had lower HP numbers for the SS versus the Z/28, and even then it was only about 15 hp.

You neglect that the 1st Gen 302 Z28 at high RPM (around 7,000) put out more HP than any SS. It made about 400 or more HP and its pull was likened to a 426 HEMI. Z28's took out SS's and other big blocks. It's history makes it the Camaro that should always be top.

Horsepower was listed at 290 at 5800 rpm nominal. It's important to keep that word nominal in mind, because it means the 290 figure was just something somebody plugged into Chevy's spec sheets. It might just as well have been 300 or 350 or 400 bhp. Most, if not all, Z-28 302's put out more than 290 bhp and 290 foot-pounds of torque at 4200 rpm.

Actual horsepower depended a lot on which intake and exhaust manifolds you chose, which carburetor(s), and what internal modifications you pursued. No actual dyno figures were ever released by Chevrolet for the 302-cid Z-28 engine, but the auto magazines didn't hesitate to speculate. Their estimates ranged from a realistic 350 bhp in ROAD & TRACK to 370-plus in SPORTS CAR GRAPHIC to 400 bhp in CAR LIFE. All-out, blueprinted racing versions, like those built by Traco and Yunick, probably delivered in the neighborhood of 450 bhp, which took some heavy tinkering to pull from 302 cid and still expect reliability.

from Chapter 6 of Michael Lamm's "The Great Camaro"; and also from Chapter 14 of John Hooper's "The 1967-1968 Camaro Reference Book".

Originally posted by IZ28


And DXed, yes the IROC-Z was almost the same thing as what the SS is now. But it was a new designation which commerated the Camaro Z28 being used as the car of choice of the IROC races that still acknowledged that the car was an IROC-Z28, a better, upgraded Z28.

Show me ANYWHERE that the car is called an IROC-Z28... It is IROC-Z. Not IROC-Z28. IROC-Z was an add-on package to the Z28, just as the 4th Gen's SS package was. It's NOT different, especially when you get to the 88 to 90 models when there was no Z28 at all!!!!!!!!! The term "IROC-Z28" is something you have fabricated.


It did not take a name from way back that meant something completely different and all of a sudden become an option to make the Z28 look like a mid-range nothing compared to the IROC-Z, like what the SS did to the Z28.

:bs:

IROC-Z made Z28 a 'mid-model' just as much as SS did to the Z28 in the 4th gen.

I was ending grade school and begnning highschool the whole time IROC-Z's were around. I was in 7th grade in 1985. I graduated high school in 1990. SO, in my most impressionable years for cars, IROC-Z was the top Camaro... NOT Z28. Z28 was viewed as the car someone bought if the couldn't step up to the IROC-Z. People called (and still call the cars) IROC'S not "IROC-Z28's, or an "upgraded Z28" or anything like that... again, this is something you have made up in your mind to justify the heierarchy of the 3rd Gen.



It was like there were 2 top models, a Z28 or an upgraded Z28.


Not true, see above.


Then it just made sense to keep the better upgraded Z28 only in 88-90. The problem is using the SS name and not giving the Z28 the recognition it deserves.

How does DROPPING THE Z28 NAME for 88-90 give Z28 the recognition is deserves?!?!?!?!? lol.

Originally posted by Darth Xed
Show me ANYWHERE that the car is called an IROC-Z28... It is IROC-Z. Not IROC-Z28. IROC-Z was an add-on package to the Z28, just as the 4th Gen's SS package was. It's NOT different, especially when you get to the 88 to 90 models when there was no Z28 at all!!!!!!!!! The term "IROC-Z28" is something you have fabricated.








From '85 to '87 IROCs were Z/28's.....complete with Z28 emblems on the dashboard, rocker panels, and rear fascias. They were refered to as IROC-Z28 by GM, the media and enthusiasts....much in the same way that 4th gen SS's were refered to as Z28SS early on.

In '88 thru '90 when Z/28 was dropped, IROCZ emblems replaced the Z28 emblems on the exterior....but for some reason, (even though Z/28 as model was dropped), Z28 emblems remained on the interior.

Like I said earlier, I didn't really like Chevy naming their top Camaro package after what I think is pretty silly series.....but the IROC-Z had the Z/28's fingerprints all over it.

Thank you. :) You said it all for me. :cool: And not only was Z28 on the interior, it was the ordering RPO of an 88-90 IROC-Z. And even IF the Z28 was made mid model-like, (it wasn't in 87, the LT was) the IROC-Z was a Z28 and its easy to see. Thats what the Z was for!! *Doh*

Originally posted by IZ28
And not only was Z28 on the interior, it was the ordering RPO of an 88-90 IROC-Z.

If you really want to nit-pick about RPO's, when ordering a 4th gen SS I'm pretty sure you selected Z28 and then checked the SS performance/appearance package. :)

Originally posted by danno02SS
Horsepower was listed at 290 at 5800 rpm nominal. It's important to keep that word nominal in mind, because it means the 290 figure was just something somebody plugged into Chevy's spec sheets. It might just as well have been 300 or 350 or 400 bhp. Most, if not all, Z-28 302's put out more than 290 bhp and 290 foot-pounds of torque at 4200 rpm.

Actual horsepower depended a lot on which intake and exhaust manifolds you chose, which carburetor(s), and what internal modifications you pursued. No actual dyno figures were ever released by Chevrolet for the 302-cid Z-28 engine, but the auto magazines didn't hesitate to speculate. Their estimates ranged from a realistic 350 bhp in ROAD & TRACK to 370-plus in SPORTS CAR GRAPHIC to 400 bhp in CAR LIFE. All-out, blueprinted racing versions, like those built by Traco and Yunick, probably delivered in the neighborhood of 450 bhp, which took some heavy tinkering to pull from 302 cid and still expect reliability.

from Chapter 6 of Michael Lamm's "The Great Camaro"; and also from Chapter 14 of John Hooper's "The 1967-1968 Camaro Reference Book".

I must congratulate you. Your facts and references are impeccable.

Originally posted by Z28Wilson
If you really want to nit-pick about RPO's, when ordering a 4th gen SS I'm pretty sure you selected Z28 and then checked the SS performance/appearance package. :)


Exactly.

Look, I'm not trying to rip IROC's... I like them and the 3rd Gen car... hell, I drove on for 4 years!

The thing is, no matter how nit-picky the 3rd Genners wanna get about it, IROC-Z was an "SS" before the 4th Gen even came about.

If IROC-Z is OK, there is no reason SS should be a problem.

I think Z284 and I explained before why it does cause a problem. ;)

Originally posted by Darth Xed

The thing is, no matter how nit-picky the 3rd Genners wanna get about it, IROC-Z was an "SS" before the 4th Gen even came about.

If IROC-Z is OK, there is no reason SS should be a problem.

Darth, if after 5 pages of posts this is the best argument FOR an SS Camaro..(and as far as I can tell, you may have the strongest argument), SS is on thin ice with Camaro.

Not to beat a dead horse... but I will... ;)

The IROC option (RPO B4Z) included special suspension, stowaway spare tire, P245/50VR16 black wall tires, aluminum wheels and halogen fog lamps. Available only with Z28. -source> http://www.camarosource.ca

The 3rd-Gen IROC-Z was a special equipment and styling option on top of the "base" Z/28. The 4th-Gen "SS" was a special equipment and styling option on top of the "base" Z/28.

Why "SS" was chosen should bo obvious to even the most feeble minded... they weren't running Camaros at IROC, and Chevy was trying to tie into the heritage of the "Super Sports".

:rolleyes:

Make the SS the drag racer's solid axle, straight line, 1/4 mile sledgehammer, and the Z/28 the road racer's IRS, big braked, high-revving, nimble, light weight road carver, which is what it started out as--a Trams AM homologation special. Plenty of room for both.

Wasn't the first "SS" the Chevy Impala 409, about 1961?

Originally posted by quick
Make the SS the drag racer's solid axle, straight line, 1/4 mile sledgehammer, and the Z/28 the road racer's IRS, big braked, high-revving, nimble, light weight road carver, which is what it started out as--a Trams AM homologation special. Plenty of room for both.



If Chevy were willing to commit to that level of differentiation for Camaro....I would sure be happy!

I'm sure Chevy would tell you though, how that would cost too much, there is not enough money for such frivolity, why would we want that anyway, dent resistant fenders should be exciting enough, etc., etc.

Originally posted by quick
...
Wasn't the first "SS" the Chevy Impala 409, about 1961?

Actually the "first" "SS" was a six cylinder. :D

Originally posted by jg95z28
Actually the "first" "SS" was a six cylinder. :D

....and of course the most recent SS's are six cylinders.....and from my perspective, I have no problem with that.

Actually the first SS was a special racing Corvette that Zora Arkus-Duntov engineered in 1957.

www.illustratedcorvetteseries.com/No7_1957_SS_Corvette.html (http://www.illustratedcorvetteseries.com/No7_1957_SS_Corvette.html)

The "SS" nameplate was seen as a way to put a little bit of the Corvette spirit into every Chevrolet.

Originally posted by danno02SS
Actually the first SS was a special racing Corvette that Zora Arkus-Duntov engineered in 1957.



The story goes........

Someone asked Zora if his purpose built Sebring race car was a sportscar. Zora responded..." no, it's a super sportscar".