sleeperz28

I thought about switching over and instead of running C-16 just run alcohol. RIght now the car is my daily driver so I would still run pump gas through the system. I have two different fuel tanks in the car. Im not sure I could incorporate a belt driven pump into the equation but a weldon 2035 should support enough alcohol for 1200hp.

Anyway, what im looking for is some disadvantages of running alcohol, besides how it corodes aluminum from the cooling effect.
The price is cheaper from what I hear about $2 a gallon.

The only disadvantage I see right now as a street car is switching programs everytime I change from gas to alcohol.

Those that run this on there car some more input work be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Stephen 87 IROC

It's not easy to switch back and forth because of how big the passages and jets need to be for alcohol. Many racers who use alcohol will drain it out and put gas into the system at the end of a weekend. They start the engine up to purge off the alcohol and when it starts to flood from gasoline they know the alcohol is gone. As a comparrison a typical carb will have jets around #85. My alcohol carb uses #185 jets. About the easiest way to switch back and forth with a carb is to either have 2 different carbs or you swap the metering blocks back and forth.

When you use alcohol you put a top lube into it so that it doesn't dry out the system as much. A 16 oz bottle treats 55 gallons.

When running alcohol you'll use close to twice as much fuel as gasoline. I expect to use 2 barrels of fuel this race season which is still cheaper than one barrel of C12, C14 or C16. Engine compression is 13:1

I run a BG280 electric pump in my car and have a -10 fuel line (5/8") from the front mounted fuel cell to the carb.

Alcohol runs very cold. I only use a rad from a turbo Firefly. After a pass the coolent temperature is around 180 and falls below 160 by the time I drive back to the pits. Because the engine runs so cold and the amount of fuel that's dumped into the engine, the oil gets quickly contaminated with water and alcohol. I usually do an oil change after 2 weekends of racing. Pull my valve covers and it looks like mayonase under them.

Although there are many benifits from running alcohol, it's a high maintanence fuel and I'd never recommend it for a daily driver. The exhaust fumes are formaldahyde which is poisonous. It'll pass a sniffer test with no problems but the fumes would empty a building of people quickly.

After running a full season on alcohol in my race car I'd never go back to race fuel. My 4 gallon cell can get 2 easy 1/4 mile passes and maybe 3 depending how long the car runs through the staging lanes but I top it up after every pass.

mastrdrver

I've heard that you have to run different bearings and rings bcuz of the fumes that alcohol porduces, this true?

Stephen 87 IROC

I use normal Clevite77 bearings and Federal Mogal low tension rings.

Heads should be redone for an alcohol engine. I'm not sure what the requirements are but I'm pretty sure it has something to do with valve guide clearance. When I had my heads redone I told them that I was going to alcohol. They said something needed to be changed. It might have been that it needed bronze guides instead of the cast iron ones. It could also have been that the valves needed a couple of thousands more clearance to compensate for the dry fuel.

MaxRaceSoftware

you should run either Phosphor/Bronze or Maganese/Bronze alloy valve guides with methanol

don't run other Silicone/Bronze/Aluminum alloy guides (Gold) with
Methanol or plain cast-steel guides ...especially with hi-lift roller cams with greater spring pressures
will cause galling of valve stems and steel guide material due to fact that methanol reduces oil lubrication

running Methanol will also increase ring blowby
most times roughly "double" Blowby CFM

running methanol will reduce Volumetric Efficiency
by 10+ Ve PerCent
----------------------------------

with all that said, Methanol is usually more consistent ETs at Dragstrip even when Weather changes drastically
Methanol has Oxygen

Methanol picks up bottom to mid-range Torque and HP numbers
usually 8 to 12 Percent gains

LameRandomName

It can be a pain in the *** to start an alcohol motor, too.

Stephen 87 IROC

Only injected ones. Mine is carbed. I have to pump the throttle a lot to fill the engine with fuel when it's cold since there's no choke system. Alcohol runs rich when the engine is cold and leans out once it gets warm due to the evaporation. Once my engine is warm it fires right up as soon as I hit the start button.

People who use alcohol injection systems like Ron's Toilet www.ronsfuel.com will usually have a small gas system as a primer for starting.

When you see blown alcohol cars trying to start, there's someone with a soap container squirting something into the butterflies. That's just gas to get the engine started.

LameRandomName

Yes, that was the P.I.T.A. part that I was thinking about.

OldSStroker

You'd have to have pretty long arms to start your F-body alone, huh?

So far:

Much more alcohol required...
More blowby...
Lower VE...
Harder on some engine parts...
More frequent oil changes...
New, larger fuel system required..
You probably have to store and pump it at home...
Harder starting...

On the flip side:

More low and mid range if you drive at WOT...

Maybe this is why we still use petro-based fuel instead of veggie-based.

Stephen 87 IROC

That's why you install a gas primer system. Push a button and it injects gasoline into the intake.

More positive side:
- Produced more power. Alcohol has less BTU energy than gasoline per gallon however since you burn almost twice as much alcohol you get more power out of the engine. Typically anywhere from .2 - .4 quicker ETs.
- Runs cold so you don't need a huge heavy cooling system.
- Consistancy. Alcohol reacts very slowly to air changes. There has to be a huge difference in the weather conditions to affect alcohol. Gasoline reacts too much even when a cloud goes over the track.
- Compared to the cost of race fuel it's still cheaper even though you'll burn more.
- Almost impossible to get detonation so a very high compression engine can be used. 15:1 will love alcohol and it will still burn in a 8:1 engine.