How much HP is timing worth?
#1
How much HP is timing worth?
I was looking at my bin for my Camaro last night and realized something strange. It seems that I only have 29.7 deg total timing in my program. I thought that I had to add my initial to what my Auto X-ray said, but it seems that the X-ray already adds it. The bin reads that I have 23.7 deg above 70kpa above 3,500rpm. Shouldn't by timing be around 36-38deg by 2,800rpm. How much power am I loosing. I am guessing 50-60hp.
------------------
91 Z28 ALL FORGED 383,EAGLE 6" RODS,11.2:1 SRP PISTONS,TOTAL SEAL RINGS,MINI RAM,ACCEL 58mm T-BODY,AFR 210'S
int. exh.
.600 298.3 .600 261.4
COMP HYDRAULLIC ROLLER
236/242@.050 .555/.575, 950-16 SPRINGS 1.900in INSTAL,CRANE GOLD RACE 1.6 ROCKERS,CLOYES ROLLER CHAIN,MILODON OILING SYSTEM,HOOKER SPR COMP 1 3/4 FULL LENGTHS, 3"DUALS,X-PIPE, 4,000 VIGILANTE, 3.73,
BE COOL RAD,VIC jR. WATER PUMP,MARCH ALUM U/D PULLEYS,ACCEL 30lb INJECTORS,MSD DIG-6 AND WIRES,DUI DISTRIB AND COIL,TPIS LEVEL 5 PROM,SFI FLEX PLATE AND BALANCER,ADJUST FUEL PRESS REG,RAM AIR,EIBACK DRAG LAUNCH KIT,LAKEWOOK 70/30 F,50/50 R SHOCKS,NO EMISSIONS STUFF,NO A/C.
G-Tech time 12.20@124 w/200lb passanger.
------------------
91 Z28 ALL FORGED 383,EAGLE 6" RODS,11.2:1 SRP PISTONS,TOTAL SEAL RINGS,MINI RAM,ACCEL 58mm T-BODY,AFR 210'S
int. exh.
.600 298.3 .600 261.4
COMP HYDRAULLIC ROLLER
236/242@.050 .555/.575, 950-16 SPRINGS 1.900in INSTAL,CRANE GOLD RACE 1.6 ROCKERS,CLOYES ROLLER CHAIN,MILODON OILING SYSTEM,HOOKER SPR COMP 1 3/4 FULL LENGTHS, 3"DUALS,X-PIPE, 4,000 VIGILANTE, 3.73,
BE COOL RAD,VIC jR. WATER PUMP,MARCH ALUM U/D PULLEYS,ACCEL 30lb INJECTORS,MSD DIG-6 AND WIRES,DUI DISTRIB AND COIL,TPIS LEVEL 5 PROM,SFI FLEX PLATE AND BALANCER,ADJUST FUEL PRESS REG,RAM AIR,EIBACK DRAG LAUNCH KIT,LAKEWOOK 70/30 F,50/50 R SHOCKS,NO EMISSIONS STUFF,NO A/C.
G-Tech time 12.20@124 w/200lb passanger.
#2
this definitely isn't an "advanced" question, especially if i can answer it. i have 40* total timing at WOT above ~3500~ rpm. the LT1 loves timing; it still freaks me out that it handles that much and has absolutely zero knock retard across the board.
#3
not exactly advance by any stretch of the imagination...
timing gain is dependant upon how advance you are currently..,''timing can give you a few hp but the amount gained is less and less for every degree you advance it...
in advanced tech terms
lim (g) = 0
g--->infinity
where g is the amount of power gained for another degree of timing advance over the last advance
(assuming no knock use higher octane)
although i think g cant ----> infinity, only 359
just had to throw that in.
basically *(just to use easy numbers that are WAY off) ,
if
1* advance is 100hp over stock
2* is 140hp over stock
3* is 160hp
10* is 165hp
so its not linear- roots equation i think ?
so dont think having crazy advanced timing and 108 octane is going to gie you massive gains- 5-6 hp is the most you can gain in a stock LT1
...moving to LT1 tech- ohh wait i;m not a moderator
edit: Christ i'm doing too much calc and engineering hw today! take a 5 min break and look what happens!
cheers
trey
[This message has been edited by treyZ28 (edited September 02, 2002).]
timing gain is dependant upon how advance you are currently..,''timing can give you a few hp but the amount gained is less and less for every degree you advance it...
in advanced tech terms
lim (g) = 0
g--->infinity
where g is the amount of power gained for another degree of timing advance over the last advance
(assuming no knock use higher octane)
although i think g cant ----> infinity, only 359
just had to throw that in.
basically *(just to use easy numbers that are WAY off) ,
if
1* advance is 100hp over stock
2* is 140hp over stock
3* is 160hp
10* is 165hp
so its not linear- roots equation i think ?
so dont think having crazy advanced timing and 108 octane is going to gie you massive gains- 5-6 hp is the most you can gain in a stock LT1
...moving to LT1 tech- ohh wait i;m not a moderator
edit: Christ i'm doing too much calc and engineering hw today! take a 5 min break and look what happens!
cheers
trey
[This message has been edited by treyZ28 (edited September 02, 2002).]
#4
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: I reached back like a pimp and smacked that LS1....
Posts: 886
On all of the LT1's I've dyno tuned, none of them have made more power with more than 34 degrees of total timing. Most can run at 31-32 degrees and lose no HP but gain torque.
#5
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by INTMD8:
On all of the LT1's I've dyno tuned, none of them have made more power with more than 34 degrees of total timing. Most can run at 31-32 degrees and lose no HP but gain torque.
</font>
On all of the LT1's I've dyno tuned, none of them have made more power with more than 34 degrees of total timing. Most can run at 31-32 degrees and lose no HP but gain torque.
</font>
Rich Krause
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'95 Z-28 383: Vortech, nitrous, etc.
AIM: rstevenkrause
#7
I have DFI and have my start line timing set at 41 and taper it down to 38 as I go thru the traps. I have tried running it a bunch of different ways and have found that this works well (Cam is 256/266 @ 0.050).
Daren
Daren
#9
It makes a difference if you have a regular ignition which is not programable. My car leaves harder with a bunch of timing, but needs to be retarded to get good mph's. On a non programable system you kind of have to compromise.
Daren
Daren
#11
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by LETHALRACER:
I don't have an LT1. I have an old school L98. Pre 87 short block. Does this make a difference.</font>
I don't have an LT1. I have an old school L98. Pre 87 short block. Does this make a difference.</font>
The catch is that older heads typically tolerance less advance than newer heads. So, when adjusting timing, you adjust it so that you avoid detonation. This will typically be something less than the advance that yields maximum power. You can do one of two things - run higher-octane fuel, or "upgrade" the cylinder heads to something like Vortecs or Fast Burns. AFRs are excellent heads in terms of airflow, but they tend to require a bit more advance than the newest factory heads.
Do not add excessive amounts of fuel to quiet down detonation caused by excessive spark advance, as the detonation is still occuring (albeit inaudibly). If you do this, you may get the chance to involuntarly inspect the bottom end of the motor.
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Eric Bryant
'96 Impala SS (LT4 396, T56, "firm" suspension)
'96 GMC K2500 (parts hauler/dune runner)
'92 Roadmaster wagon (winter beater)
'01 Honda Accord LX V6 Coupe (wife's car)
http://www.bryantperformance.com
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