View Poll Results: The Z/28's benchmark should be....
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The Z/28's benchmark should be.....
04-16-2008, 10:51 AM
#46
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Join Date: May 2003
Location: Mason, Ohio
Posts: 30
...Neither...
The Z28 needs be a modern interpretation of its original forumla; A corner carver that also sprints with the best of them. It needs be a world class handler powered by a burbling, Naturally Aspirated, Chevy Smallblock V8; All at an attainable price.
The Z28 should be setting the benchmark here. Not the GT500 or M3.
The Z28 needs be a modern interpretation of its original forumla; A corner carver that also sprints with the best of them. It needs be a world class handler powered by a burbling, Naturally Aspirated, Chevy Smallblock V8; All at an attainable price.
The Z28 should be setting the benchmark here. Not the GT500 or M3.
04-16-2008, 11:38 AM
#47
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Casa Grande, AZ
Posts: 7
Nissan GT-R should be added as a benchmark choice. The thought of an AWD twin turbo V6 Z28 intrigues me as a modern interpretation of the legendary performance of the 1st gen SCCA Trans Am racer....
And as far as not comparing the Z28 to a $70k car from a competitor? What do you guys want? EVERY performance package priced like a base camaro but still outperform everything else? c'mon! Even Chevy should be able to charge for something worthwhile!
Z28 shouldn't be the commodity it was in the middle years.
And as far as not comparing the Z28 to a $70k car from a competitor? What do you guys want? EVERY performance package priced like a base camaro but still outperform everything else? c'mon! Even Chevy should be able to charge for something worthwhile!
Z28 shouldn't be the commodity it was in the middle years.
04-16-2008, 12:15 PM
#48
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: FL/MI
Posts: 1,808
I don't lean as much toward benchmarks as I do on who is working on the car and what their ethos is.
Cheryl certainly knows what handling and extreme performance is as I had the the honor to meet her when she was involved in the Corvette...particularly in the Z06. Ken Brown and Mike Neal were the engineers I knew who were steering the handling/dynamics design/nuts and bolts. Brown and Neal were road racer guys. It shows in the final product and the production Corvette ability as well as the sucess of the racing program.
GM performance division is involved here on the new Camaro... Heinracy and his crew know their stuff. John can absolutely drive and thus evaluate the design without filtering.
I can't see anyone being anything but optimistic about what will be offered.
Cheryl certainly knows what handling and extreme performance is as I had the the honor to meet her when she was involved in the Corvette...particularly in the Z06. Ken Brown and Mike Neal were the engineers I knew who were steering the handling/dynamics design/nuts and bolts. Brown and Neal were road racer guys. It shows in the final product and the production Corvette ability as well as the sucess of the racing program.
GM performance division is involved here on the new Camaro... Heinracy and his crew know their stuff. John can absolutely drive and thus evaluate the design without filtering.
I can't see anyone being anything but optimistic about what will be offered.
Last edited by 1fastdog; 04-16-2008 at 12:30 PM.
04-16-2008, 12:16 PM
#49
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Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: manassas, VA
Posts: 808
The sarcasm isn't directed at the retort. It's fair to say that even the slow LG4 Z28s (which was the base Z28 engine and by far the most common) were great handling cars.
The sarcasm is spill over from the other thread of "but zzzz2eightzz has alwayz been top dawg!", ignoring the many lackluster Z28s that did not necessarily always have all the best stuff unless other options were added. Thirdgen examples, z28 never even guaranteed you rear disk brakes, let alone the top engine, or the 1LE big front brakes, some years even getting the 'top' engine didn't get you dual cats by default. We've had this debate before.
The sarcasm is spill over from the other thread of "but zzzz2eightzz has alwayz been top dawg!", ignoring the many lackluster Z28s that did not necessarily always have all the best stuff unless other options were added. Thirdgen examples, z28 never even guaranteed you rear disk brakes, let alone the top engine, or the 1LE big front brakes, some years even getting the 'top' engine didn't get you dual cats by default. We've had this debate before.
04-16-2008, 12:51 PM
#50
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Chicagoland IL
Posts: 16,179
The sarcasm isn't directed at the retort. It's fair to say that even the slow LG4 Z28s (which was the base Z28 engine and by far the most common) were great handling cars.
The sarcasm is spill over from the other thread of "but zzzz2eightzz has alwayz been top dawg!", ignoring the many lackluster Z28s that did not necessarily always have all the best stuff unless other options were added. Thirdgen examples, z28 never even guaranteed you rear disk brakes, let alone the top engine, or the 1LE big front brakes, some years even getting the 'top' engine didn't get you dual cats by default. We've had this debate before.
The sarcasm is spill over from the other thread of "but zzzz2eightzz has alwayz been top dawg!", ignoring the many lackluster Z28s that did not necessarily always have all the best stuff unless other options were added. Thirdgen examples, z28 never even guaranteed you rear disk brakes, let alone the top engine, or the 1LE big front brakes, some years even getting the 'top' engine didn't get you dual cats by default. We've had this debate before.
But I'll add this. If the 5th gen Z/28 can have as big and positive of a splash at it's intro, as the the '82 Z/28 did at it's own - (with the media, the buying public and the general automotive ethusiast community at large) - it'll be in GREAT shape.
04-16-2008, 02:48 PM
#51
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Chicagoland IL
Posts: 16,179
In the spirit of fleshing out my own threads, I did my own "benchmarking" on the M3. I just drove one.
Lemme just say.................................OMG! OMG! Did I say OMG!?
This car rocks. To say that I'm impressed would be a huge understatement. It could not have been better dialed in every way. Those guys are magicians. It's chassis tuning is perfect - and I pushed it hard over different types of roads! It's steering is fantastic. Brakes? Well, what do you think? That V8 motor though, holy freaking ****!!!!! It sounds incredible and the powerband goes on forever....I got a bark, (as opposed to a wimpy chirp), as I shifted into 3rd. Anyone here ever shift a V8 at 8,300 rpm before?
I could go on about the great seats and driving position and all that - but who wants to hear about that.
Bottom line is, if this car isn't what an ideal Z/28 should drive like, then I am simply on the wrong board. Really.
jg, are you listening?
I love my CTS, but after getting out of that fantastic M3, it felt like grandma's putt-putt.
Anyways, if you guys have any specific questions - ask away.
Oh BTW, I also just drove a 6 speed manual, 135, with the sport pkg and dealer installed stage 1 tune. That car is VERY awesome too. But I'll save that for later.
What the hell, maybe I'll go drive a GT500 now - I see lots of unsold ones on dealer lots.
Lemme just say.................................OMG! OMG! Did I say OMG!?
This car rocks. To say that I'm impressed would be a huge understatement. It could not have been better dialed in every way. Those guys are magicians. It's chassis tuning is perfect - and I pushed it hard over different types of roads! It's steering is fantastic. Brakes? Well, what do you think? That V8 motor though, holy freaking ****!!!!! It sounds incredible and the powerband goes on forever....I got a bark, (as opposed to a wimpy chirp), as I shifted into 3rd. Anyone here ever shift a V8 at 8,300 rpm before?
I could go on about the great seats and driving position and all that - but who wants to hear about that.
Bottom line is, if this car isn't what an ideal Z/28 should drive like, then I am simply on the wrong board. Really.
jg, are you listening?
I love my CTS, but after getting out of that fantastic M3, it felt like grandma's putt-putt.
Anyways, if you guys have any specific questions - ask away.
Oh BTW, I also just drove a 6 speed manual, 135, with the sport pkg and dealer installed stage 1 tune. That car is VERY awesome too. But I'll save that for later.
What the hell, maybe I'll go drive a GT500 now - I see lots of unsold ones on dealer lots.
Last edited by Z284ever; 04-16-2008 at 03:12 PM.
04-16-2008, 03:20 PM
#52
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,209
Nissan GT-R should be added as a benchmark choice. The thought of an AWD twin turbo V6 Z28 intrigues me as a modern interpretation of the legendary performance of the 1st gen SCCA Trans Am racer....
And as far as not comparing the Z28 to a $70k car from a competitor? What do you guys want? EVERY performance package priced like a base camaro but still outperform everything else? c'mon! Even Chevy should be able to charge for something worthwhile!
Z28 shouldn't be the commodity it was in the middle years.
And as far as not comparing the Z28 to a $70k car from a competitor? What do you guys want? EVERY performance package priced like a base camaro but still outperform everything else? c'mon! Even Chevy should be able to charge for something worthwhile!
Z28 shouldn't be the commodity it was in the middle years.
Are you serious?
04-16-2008, 03:52 PM
#53
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 1,028
i would think by your standards, Charlie, that the M3 is too heavy.. it tips the scales at 3650lbs according to BMW.. and has less than 300lb-ft of torque.. sure its a high revving V8 w/ 420HP.. but its no light car
with those stats, i would more likely compare it with the LS3 Camaro.. similar power, gobs more torque, and maybe 100lbs heavier (at most 200lbs heavier but i doubt the LS3 Camaro will weigh 3850lbs) .. .. a pretty close comparison for what will likely be less than half the price of the M3
the supercharged Camaro.... call it a Z/28, or SS.. i dont care... but yeah it'll be heavier.. but i doubt over 4000lbs and i bet it would be lighter and less front heavy than the GT500, simply because it uses an aluminum block as opposed to the GT500's cast iron block
with those stats, i would more likely compare it with the LS3 Camaro.. similar power, gobs more torque, and maybe 100lbs heavier (at most 200lbs heavier but i doubt the LS3 Camaro will weigh 3850lbs) .. .. a pretty close comparison for what will likely be less than half the price of the M3
the supercharged Camaro.... call it a Z/28, or SS.. i dont care... but yeah it'll be heavier.. but i doubt over 4000lbs and i bet it would be lighter and less front heavy than the GT500, simply because it uses an aluminum block as opposed to the GT500's cast iron block
04-16-2008, 03:52 PM
#54
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Confederate States of America
Posts: 1,049
In the spirit of fleshing out my own threads, I did my own "benchmarking" on the M3. I just drove one.
Lemme just say.................................OMG! OMG! Did I say OMG!?
This car rocks. To say that I'm impressed would be a huge understatement. It could not have been better dialed in every way. Those guys are magicians. It's chassis tuning is perfect - and I pushed it hard over different types of roads! It's steering is fantastic. Brakes? Well, what do you think? That V8 motor though, holy freaking ****!!!!! It sounds incredible and the powerband goes on forever....I got a bark, (as opposed to a wimpy chirp), as I shifted into 3rd. Anyone here ever shift a V8 at 8,300 rpm before?
I could go on about the great seats and driving position and all that - but who wants to hear about that.
Bottom line is, if this car isn't what an ideal Z/28 should drive like, then I am simply on the wrong board. Really.
jg, are you listening?
I love my CTS, but after getting out of that fantastic M3, it felt like grandma's putt-putt.
Anyways, if you guys have any specific questions - ask away.
Oh BTW, I also just drove a 6 speed manual, 135, with the sport pkg and dealer installed stage 1 tune. That car is VERY awesome too. But I'll save that for later.
What the hell, maybe I'll go drive a GT500 now - I see lots of unsold ones on dealer lots.
Lemme just say.................................OMG! OMG! Did I say OMG!?
This car rocks. To say that I'm impressed would be a huge understatement. It could not have been better dialed in every way. Those guys are magicians. It's chassis tuning is perfect - and I pushed it hard over different types of roads! It's steering is fantastic. Brakes? Well, what do you think? That V8 motor though, holy freaking ****!!!!! It sounds incredible and the powerband goes on forever....I got a bark, (as opposed to a wimpy chirp), as I shifted into 3rd. Anyone here ever shift a V8 at 8,300 rpm before?
I could go on about the great seats and driving position and all that - but who wants to hear about that.
Bottom line is, if this car isn't what an ideal Z/28 should drive like, then I am simply on the wrong board. Really.
jg, are you listening?
I love my CTS, but after getting out of that fantastic M3, it felt like grandma's putt-putt.
Anyways, if you guys have any specific questions - ask away.
Oh BTW, I also just drove a 6 speed manual, 135, with the sport pkg and dealer installed stage 1 tune. That car is VERY awesome too. But I'll save that for later.
What the hell, maybe I'll go drive a GT500 now - I see lots of unsold ones on dealer lots.
04-16-2008, 03:59 PM
#55
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Chicagoland IL
Posts: 16,179
with those stats, i would more likely compare it with the LS3 Camaro.. similar power, gobs more torque, and maybe 100lbs heavier (at most 200lbs heavier but i doubt the LS3 Camaro will weigh 3850lbs) .. .. a pretty close comparison for what will likely be less than half the price of the M3
04-16-2008, 04:13 PM
#56
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 1,028
while none of us knows exactly what the LS3 Camaro will weigh.. even if it weighs 3750lbs, 100lbs more than the M3.. i honestly dont think you will feel the difference in handling with a whole 2.7% more mass than the M3..
04-16-2008, 04:43 PM
#59
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Annapolis MD
Posts: 2,802
yeah, Im not sure I see how twin turbo V6 AWD heavy car is in the spirit of a 1st Gen Z28 That one caught me off gaurd...While you may have a good point, I think it does matter. Alot of people do mod Im not too quick to do that. Voids warrenty, lowers the value of the car.
Last edited by 5thgen69camaro; 04-16-2008 at 04:47 PM.
04-16-2008, 04:50 PM
#60
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 1,028
i'd say at least 90% will stay stock for their entire lifetime.. relatively few people actually mod their cars.. sure the majority here and on other enthusiest sites do mod their cars, but we are the minority
