Z/28 confirmed for 2011
10-07-2009, 06:01 PM
#46
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Location: Oakland, California
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Id love to know what the COPO ZL1's that hit 10's stock would do against a car like that on the street track. Ive read that the 427 big block aluminum wasnt that much heavier than the small block. Yeah I know there were only 69 of them and they never officially were a model but neither was Old Reliable 
I have to dig up one of my "old" Camaro books. It listed all the "top" 1/4 mile times tested back in the day and I want to say at least one 69 model (can't remember if it was a ZL1, COPO or cross-ram Z/28) was in the low 11s. (For some reason 11.22 rings a bell.) If I remember I'll look it up later tonight.
BTW, I wasn't suggesting old reliable was the atypical Z/28, just showing that some were "recorded" as performing much better than "high 14s".
10-07-2009, 06:10 PM
#47
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Annapolis MD
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Other than headers, gears and slicks what wasn't "factory stock" about old reliable?
I have to dig up one of my "old" Camaro books. It listed all the "top" 1/4 mile times tested back in the day and I want to say at least one 69 model (can't remember if it was a ZL1, COPO or cross-ram Z/28) was in the low 11s. (For some reason 11.22 rings a bell.) If I remember I'll look it up later tonight.
BTW, I wasn't suggesting old reliable was the atypical Z/28, just showing that some were "recorded" as performing much better than "high 14s".
I have to dig up one of my "old" Camaro books. It listed all the "top" 1/4 mile times tested back in the day and I want to say at least one 69 model (can't remember if it was a ZL1, COPO or cross-ram Z/28) was in the low 11s. (For some reason 11.22 rings a bell.) If I remember I'll look it up later tonight.
BTW, I wasn't suggesting old reliable was the atypical Z/28, just showing that some were "recorded" as performing much better than "high 14s".
But regaurdless, just from the kid in me, Id love to imagine what a ZL1 could do against Old Reliable in Auto Cross. 1/4 mile some sites have said the ZL1 have hit 10 sec. What conditions I have no idea. I wouldnt expect Old Reliable to beat a ZL1 in the quarter. Thats what the ZL1 was built for.
Last edited by 5thgen69camaro; 10-07-2009 at 06:14 PM.
10-07-2009, 06:29 PM
#48
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Location: Oakland, California
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Im not saying you did say it was stock. I didnt think it was even close. I had thought that the Z/28 model was moreso to sell a street version of that race car. Could you even take a stock fender and fit it to a race car like Old Reliable? That is the Mark Donahue Sunoco car right?
But regaurdless, just from the kid in me, Id love to imagine what a ZL1 could do against Old Reliable in Auto Cross. 1/4 mile some sites have said the ZL1 have hit 10 sec. What conditions I have no idea. I wouldnt expect Old Reliable to beat a ZL1 in the quarter. Thats what the ZL1 was built for.
But regaurdless, just from the kid in me, Id love to imagine what a ZL1 could do against Old Reliable in Auto Cross. 1/4 mile some sites have said the ZL1 have hit 10 sec. What conditions I have no idea. I wouldnt expect Old Reliable to beat a ZL1 in the quarter. Thats what the ZL1 was built for.
FWIW, Penske reportedly acid dipped his 69 Trans Am cars to lighten them. That's why a few got vinyl tops added to hide the warping.
However Trans Am required the cars for the most part all be factory sheet metal, so yes, the stock parts still fit.P.S. On second thought, I don't see a roll bar in this photo from 1968, although I know one was added much later for it to meet "modern" safety requirements.
BTW, it is for sale if anyone is interested.
Last edited by jg95z28; 10-07-2009 at 06:35 PM.
10-07-2009, 07:13 PM
#50
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Join Date: Nov 1998
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 3,252
LOL. Don't use NHRA Super Stock drag cars as examples of what "nearly stock" anything can run. Yes, they are limited in rules, but those engines are far, far, far from stock - especially in Super Stock, and even in Stock Eliminator (the class below).
Heck, I raced in a much milder class called "Factory Stock" a few years ago. My "stock" motored 99 Cobra with stock cams (not even regrinds), unported heads, untouched intake, flattop pistons, shorty headers through a full exhaust, all accessories, no power adder, etc, went 11.4s on drag radials. Ever heard of a "factory stock" Cobra going anywhere near that quick?
NHRA Super Stock is FAR from stock.
Now back to your regularly scheduled beating of badly decaying horses.
Heck, I raced in a much milder class called "Factory Stock" a few years ago. My "stock" motored 99 Cobra with stock cams (not even regrinds), unported heads, untouched intake, flattop pistons, shorty headers through a full exhaust, all accessories, no power adder, etc, went 11.4s on drag radials. Ever heard of a "factory stock" Cobra going anywhere near that quick?
NHRA Super Stock is FAR from stock.
Now back to your regularly scheduled beating of badly decaying horses.
Last edited by Bob Cosby; 10-07-2009 at 07:18 PM.
10-07-2009, 07:32 PM
#51
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10-08-2009, 07:02 AM
#52
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Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,460
Wow, instead of being happy that the z28 is coming, we are arguing on what is better! I have always known the z28 is top dog. I like the ss too, don't get me wrong. It is not worth arguing on what, in your opinion, is better.
10-08-2009, 10:13 AM
#53
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Oakland, California
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LOL. Don't use NHRA Super Stock drag cars as examples of what "nearly stock" anything can run. Yes, they are limited in rules, but those engines are far, far, far from stock - especially in Super Stock, and even in Stock Eliminator (the class below).
Heck, I raced in a much milder class called "Factory Stock" a few years ago. My "stock" motored 99 Cobra with stock cams (not even regrinds), unported heads, untouched intake, flattop pistons, shorty headers through a full exhaust, all accessories, no power adder, etc, went 11.4s on drag radials. Ever heard of a "factory stock" Cobra going anywhere near that quick?
NHRA Super Stock is FAR from stock.
Now back to your regularly scheduled beating of badly decaying horses.
Heck, I raced in a much milder class called "Factory Stock" a few years ago. My "stock" motored 99 Cobra with stock cams (not even regrinds), unported heads, untouched intake, flattop pistons, shorty headers through a full exhaust, all accessories, no power adder, etc, went 11.4s on drag radials. Ever heard of a "factory stock" Cobra going anywhere near that quick?
NHRA Super Stock is FAR from stock.
Now back to your regularly scheduled beating of badly decaying horses.
1967
Z/28 14.9s (Car & Driver - May 1967)
SS-396 15.4s (MotorTrend - May 1967, 325hp)
1968
Z/28 13.77s (Car & Driver - July 1968, 2x4 Holley)
SS-396 14.09s (Pop. Hot Rodding - Feb 1968, L78 375hp)
SS-396 15.0s (Car & Driver - Mar 1968, L35 325hp THM)
1969
SS-396 14.77s (Car Life - Jun 1969, L78 375hp)
Z/28 15.0s (Sports Car Graphic - Jun 1969, 1x4 Holley)
SS-350 15.9s (MotorTrend - Mar 1969, L48 300hp)
And just for fun...
1969 Penske TransAm Z/28 12.8s (Sports Car Graphic - May 1970)
1968 Nickey 427 Camaro 11.43s (Pop Hot Rodding - Jun 1968, 2x4 Holley)
1969 ZL1 11.78s (Pop. Hot Rodding - Jul 1969, 1x4 Holley)
I believe all those times are on those cruddy skinny bias-ply tires from back in the day. (Except for the Penske, of course)
So I'm ready to admit that at least the SS-396/375hp was top dog in 1969; however the 1967 and 1968 Z/28s were sometimes quicker than their SS counterparts at the time. (I'm sorry to say I don't have a published time for the 1967 L78.)
10-08-2009, 03:28 PM
#54
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Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 279
10-08-2009, 03:50 PM
#55
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Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 279
The Old Reliable Z/28 was a NHRA Super Stock drag car. It had the stock body, fenders and drivetrain. Only slicks, gears and headers were added. I'd imagine a roll bar was added, otherwise it was the same as any Z/28 you could purchase off the showroom floor.
FWIW, Penske reportedly acid dipped his 69 Trans Am cars to lighten them. That's why a few got vinyl tops added to hide the warping. However Trans Am required the cars for the most part all be factory sheet metal, so yes, the stock parts still fit.
P.S. On second thought, I don't see a roll bar in this photo from 1968, although I know one was added much later for it to meet "modern" safety requirements.
BTW, it is for sale if anyone is interested.
FWIW, Penske reportedly acid dipped his 69 Trans Am cars to lighten them. That's why a few got vinyl tops added to hide the warping.
However Trans Am required the cars for the most part all be factory sheet metal, so yes, the stock parts still fit.P.S. On second thought, I don't see a roll bar in this photo from 1968, although I know one was added much later for it to meet "modern" safety requirements.
BTW, it is for sale if anyone is interested.
BTW, it is for sale if anyone is interested.
10-08-2009, 05:01 PM
#56
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Oakland, California
Posts: 9,710
This Mustang was a NHRA Top Fuel Funny Car. It had the stock body painted onto a fiberglass body. Only slicks, gears, engine, drivetrain, chassis, cage, parachute, wing, wheelie bars and headers were added. I'd imagine a roll bar was added, otherwise it was the same as any Mustang you could purchase off the showroom floor.
BTW, it is for sale if anyone is interested.
BTW, it is for sale if anyone is interested.
Cute. However you need to go to the link and actually see what was modded on the Old Reliable '68 Z/28. It equates to "not much" by modern standards.
10-08-2009, 07:00 PM
#57
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: sunny So-Cal
Posts: 200
Does anyone know how much maintenance the first gen Z-28 required, compared to the SS's? I wasn't there (as I was -2) but thought it was a hassle as the 302 was really a race engine.
I'd always assumed The top dog camaro was the 69 COPO ZL-1 (which probably required much maintenance too).
With as much technology as there is in business now like inventory on demand and CAE (computer aided everything) I'd think having a COPO program now would be feasable.
Also Motor Trend tested a ZL-1 at the track with drag slicks in 1968 and pulled off a 10.89 @ 130 mph
I'd always assumed The top dog camaro was the 69 COPO ZL-1 (which probably required much maintenance too).
With as much technology as there is in business now like inventory on demand and CAE (computer aided everything) I'd think having a COPO program now would be feasable.
Also Motor Trend tested a ZL-1 at the track with drag slicks in 1968 and pulled off a 10.89 @ 130 mph
10-08-2009, 08:29 PM
#58
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Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 18
Does anyone know how much maintenance the first gen Z-28 required, compared to the SS's? I wasn't there (as I was -2) but thought it was a hassle as the 302 was really a race engine.
I'd always assumed The top dog camaro was the 69 COPO ZL-1 (which probably required much maintenance too).
With as much technology as there is in business now like inventory on demand and CAE (computer aided everything) I'd think having a COPO program now would be feasable.
Also Motor Trend tested a ZL-1 at the track with drag slicks in 1968 and pulled off a 10.89 @ 130 mph
I'd always assumed The top dog camaro was the 69 COPO ZL-1 (which probably required much maintenance too).
With as much technology as there is in business now like inventory on demand and CAE (computer aided everything) I'd think having a COPO program now would be feasable.
Also Motor Trend tested a ZL-1 at the track with drag slicks in 1968 and pulled off a 10.89 @ 130 mph
Somebody else can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe that the Z/28 required anymore maintenance than the 375 h.p. 396, both were solid cam engines that require periodic valve lash adjustments.
10-08-2009, 08:44 PM
#59
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Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 279
LOL. Don't use NHRA Super Stock drag cars as examples of what "nearly stock" anything can run. Yes, they are limited in rules, but those engines are far, far, far from stock - especially in Super Stock, and even in Stock Eliminator (the class below).
Heck, I raced in a much milder class called "Factory Stock" a few years ago. My "stock" motored 99 Cobra with stock cams (not even regrinds), unported heads, untouched intake, flattop pistons, shorty headers through a full exhaust, all accessories, no power adder, etc, went 11.4s on drag radials. Ever heard of a "factory stock" Cobra going anywhere near that quick?
NHRA Super Stock is FAR from stock.
Now back to your regularly scheduled beating of badly decaying horses.
Heck, I raced in a much milder class called "Factory Stock" a few years ago. My "stock" motored 99 Cobra with stock cams (not even regrinds), unported heads, untouched intake, flattop pistons, shorty headers through a full exhaust, all accessories, no power adder, etc, went 11.4s on drag radials. Ever heard of a "factory stock" Cobra going anywhere near that quick?
NHRA Super Stock is FAR from stock.
Now back to your regularly scheduled beating of badly decaying horses.
10-08-2009, 08:46 PM
#60
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Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 18
The easy way to make everybody happy would be for G.M. to offer both the SS and the Z28 with either engine. So you want the baddest cruiser or dragstrip terror get the SS with the LSA/LS8. Want a car that turns and brakes hard enough to put dental fillings and eyeballs in severe jeopardy of flying right out of your head, get the Z28 with the LS3. Willing to sacrifice a little handling for more power: Z28 with the LSA/LS8 is for you. Everybody gets what they want, including G.M. who get to sell more cars at a premium with almost no additional investment.