turbo96z28

maybe i'm just an oddball.....but i like learning. i love finding out things. and i'm not so impatient that i want to know the fastest, cheapest way to learn it. i've grown up around the older crowd, guys who grew up 25 years before i was born in 79. i have a huge respect for the way things used to be. even though i'm younger, i totally see where you're coming from Red. and it bothers me too.

stars1010

Too bad you live in Jersey, I think we would get along real well.

NewbieWar

In a commerical... I kinda liked the commercial where the kid was going to prom in his parents minivan... then the wife reminded the dad what they did on prom night... then you hear next, "I cant beleive your dad let us take his viper to the prom"

I can see... a comercial, about how relaxing the car can be... a nice even exhaust note at 75 mph (perhaps an accual microphone in the car, playing a nice syphony on the radio)... crusing the hills... the curves, maybe the top down, maybe targa top... maybe a veiw, where you cant tell if its targa or convertable...

when it blacks out to tell you what great lease offer you can receive, perhaps a tire screaching track run... or 12.X seconds... of engine revs... "How long does it take you to get to work?"

with a car like this, you might be they kind to enjoy your camaro and take a little longer, or you might enjoy every horse under the hood and be the first one on the job site.

TOO Z MAXX

The image of the Camaro is still in my opinion not good. Some how they have to get this car out of the Jerry Springer, mullet wearing, red neck kind of image. When i see pictures of the concept I am afraid it isnt helping. The concept doesnt look classy or sporty at all. It looks kind of like a toy, almost hot wheelish. The best way I can describe the new concept is the Harley Davidson of the car world, which really isnt a bad thing.

90rocz

It's funny you said that. I was thinking the other day about how the prices of things financed has gotten WAY outta control. I mean, the average home used to be an "average" years salary, and a car, a couple of month's salary. Now a vehicle can cost a year's salary, and a home can cost 3 years plus..salary. Can we say "usary"...
We have ourselves to blame, as you said, we want it all, and we want it right now!...(or many do..) Looking back, at what my parent's earned, I can't help but scratch my head when thinking about how they made it, financially.
And with the destruction of the middle class continuing, the gap in views will only grow...as far as I can see.

Fbodfather

actually, that's not quite true...at least from a passenger car point of view. The average passenger car today (based on average) costs less than it did in 1962...further, the maintenance is substantially lower. (tires.....plugs...fuel economy....etc.)

the problem perhaps is in 'consumption'......and the amount of 'stuff' we have to have. Computers? Ipods? Designer clothes? I mean...look at the stuff around us that wasn't even thought of in 1962! (showing my age again...)

It's basically called 'discipline'......in the 60s, people, for the most part, paid cash. No debit cards, virtually no credit cards....and the cards were for department stores and gasoline companies....people 'made do'.....things perhaps in some ways lasted longer. (durable goods such as large appliances)

Chris 96 WS6

There's no doubt stuff built before the concept of "planned obsolescence" lasted a lot longer. Households back then used to get by on one income too, but they had smaller, more modest homes, 1 car, 1 tv, and generally taxes were lower as well.

I think the average car may very well be cheaper in 2005 dollars than the average car of 1965, but something that scares me is that we're fast approaching the point nationally, and have already surpased the point a long time ago in certain markets, where the average wage cannot afford the average mortgage payment.

TOO Z MAXX

So true, here in the bay area, Calli, only 12% of the people living can buy an average size home.

90rocz

Is that based on the price, or what one actually ends up paying for the car? (car msrp + interest x years) And for the maintenance, even though the amount done is less, the price for parts/labor is a lot more. Especially with all the gadgetry and electronics on cars these days. More electronics than what supposedly went to the moon in the '60's. Just a diagnostic will set you back $60+ around here.

You're basically right here, there are things we only dreamed of when kids, looking at the commercials this time of year. But even buying such things we need as furniture and appliances require a LOT of cash, or credit now. Credit used to be something you were embarrased to ask for at the local General store, now it's fashionable, I agree. And now it seems manufacturers price their goods with a "payment plan" in mind. I remember the weird smile I got from my dad when I told him I bought my first car on credit...now I know why the smile.
I wonder, if there was no such thing as credit today, what the price of a car would be??? I'm betting a LO-O-O-O-T-T less.

Mike2001SS

Well lets go back in time alittle and how they made it. When I had just turned 6 years old my mom and dad bought their first house. It was at the edge of town and had 5 rooms and was on a 50by150 ft lot. They had one car a 1935 Ford which was 14 years old and not all families in that area even had a car. They both worked in the cotton mills. Things you did was play out doors with friends and not have all these games PC's and TV to do inside. It was healthy and good for you. You rarely ever eat out as mom always had a simple meal on the table. Life was simple and time was spent with family.

My dad got his first new car in 1950 a 50 Mercury Black one and was so happy as it was the 2nd car they ever had. In late 1952 we got our first TV which would get 2 channels in black and white and we had the first TV in our whole neighborhood so all my friends came over to my house to see the Lone Ranger and such. We only got a TV because dad had gotten his own 1/2 hour show on TV and wanted me and mom to be able to see him.

Mom was really good with a sewing machine so she made alot of our shirts and if your socks got whole in them she fixed it. You did not through things away. You spent on 2 things, a roof over your head and food on the table which did not leave alot for anything else. The most fun was getting everyone together and going to a drive-Inn movie and taking all the kids now and then.

That first house cost mom and dad $7,000 dollars and they did not know how they would make it but I was a only child so it was better for them than families with say 3 kids to send to school.

You might say boy that would be hard I say no because there was no street gangs, no drugs, you could go off and leave your house open and not worry and why because families had real values and going to church on Sunday was something you looked forward to.

It was a better world before it got to be all about ME ME ME

morb|d

wait, you guys are actually complaining about the better standard of living we have today?? I can guarantee you that today, people officially in poverty have a better standard of living than some middle class folks did 40 years ago! get off the rapture express and step back out into the real world where the average life expectancy keeps climbing with each passing year. maybe if some of you old farts didn't live so long today, us younger people would have a better shot at a middle class life like you did in your time (half kidding).

the only thing I agree with here is the cost of real estate. In California (anywhere) the cost of housing (ownership OR rent) is out of control. but that's only because the population keeps growing by like 1 million people every few years.

I know people from elsewhere usually hate on CA, but somehow we get more and more of you moving here every year. its the proverbial "land of opportunity". end of story.

Chris 96 WS6

No I'm not complaining, I'm just pointing out that we live how we do today mostly by choice. 90% of the stuff people buy are wants, not needs. Therefore most people who are in dire financial straights have only themselves to blame.

2 rules: Its not what you make, its what you spend. And, pay yourself first.

Easy bankruptcy is like no fault divorce. It reduces the incentive to try hard to make it work. Why pay your bills when you can file for bankrupcy, get to keep your principal residence, and be clear in 7 years?

The simple fact that you have people with 6 figure incomes going bankrupt at similar rates as people making $25K a year indicates its not at all about how much you bring in, its about discipline and good judgement. I'll agree with 90rocz that credit is wayyyyy too easy to get these days, and it gets a lot of folks into trouble because of another problem, our schools should teach basic consumer and household finance as a requisite. The fact that anybody gets out of 12th grade w/o an understanding of what credit is and how to use it, or how to write a check or create a budget is a big problem.

JakeRobb

Part of the reason credit is so popular and easy to get these days is because people are learning to leverage money for the long term. This is a fairly new (<20 years old) concept.

Up through the 80's, and into the 90's a bit, it was widely thought that having your house paid off was a very strong position to be in financially.

Now, a financial advisor will tell most people to finance their homes with an interest-only loan, so that you are not building any equity at all. Why? Because you can build more equity through other investments (index funds, for example).

JG/70Z

Sounds like you're read The Wealthy Barber. Good book.

Chris 96 WS6

No, actually my Dad taught me both of those rules a long time ago, but I also read them recently in The Automatic Millionare.