Is there a light at the end of the Z28 tunnel?
02-16-2009, 01:29 PM
#16
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Bill Riley looked at the rules and won the bid to build a Camaro which could compete in a series. Same with Vince Piggins when choosing to go after the original TransAM class back in the 60's.
02-16-2009, 02:07 PM
#17
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It's gonna be impossible to get 500lbs out of it and still meet noise, emissions, and crash standards. Plus you gotta keep the huge wheels and brakes and IRS so the thing can handle. Unless the removable body panels weigh 4x what they did on the 4th gen, I'd say they won't even get 150lbs off this car.
that is basically what i plan on doing to my camaro. ive already found wheels that weigh 18lbs a piece. and their actually 22". im going to do fiberglass or carbon fiber hood and maybe trunk if i can find one. lighter drive shaft. even changing exhaust systems is lighter most of the time. as far as interior im not going to guy it out. i paid for the 2ss and i want to enjoy the plush interior. but as far as everything else i do to the car, my goal is to drop as much weight off of it as possible. i guess this will be my version of a z28.
Last edited by 2010_5thgen; 02-16-2009 at 02:11 PM.
02-16-2009, 03:38 PM
#18
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actually you probably could drop 500 lbs pretty easily. between using fiberglass instead of metal for panels, lighter wheels instead of 30-32lbs rims, take out alot of electrica bs in the interior, racing seats. it wouldnt bee that hard to drop that much weight and still stay in the safety zone.
that is basically what i plan on doing to my camaro. ive already found wheels that weigh 18lbs a piece. and their actually 22". im going to do fiberglass or carbon fiber hood and maybe trunk if i can find one. lighter drive shaft. even changing exhaust systems is lighter most of the time. as far as interior im not going to guy it out. i paid for the 2ss and i want to enjoy the plush interior. but as far as everything else i do to the car, my goal is to drop as much weight off of it as possible. i guess this will be my version of a z28.
that is basically what i plan on doing to my camaro. ive already found wheels that weigh 18lbs a piece. and their actually 22". im going to do fiberglass or carbon fiber hood and maybe trunk if i can find one. lighter drive shaft. even changing exhaust systems is lighter most of the time. as far as interior im not going to guy it out. i paid for the 2ss and i want to enjoy the plush interior. but as far as everything else i do to the car, my goal is to drop as much weight off of it as possible. i guess this will be my version of a z28.
02-16-2009, 04:36 PM
#20
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I wonder if MT looked at the Bumblebee and decided to make their picture look like it or if Bumblebee was to have been the glimpse of the Z28.
With all that GM has become and will need to be in order to stay in business I don't see how a low volume niche vehicle like the Z28 has any room post bailout. It's really going against what the Gov. and CAFE have mandated. Fun cars like the Z28 should be reserved for car companies that can afford them in good times. Neither exist here and now. Besides the 2010 Camaro V6, RS and SS will do justice for the brand just fine.
With all that GM has become and will need to be in order to stay in business I don't see how a low volume niche vehicle like the Z28 has any room post bailout. It's really going against what the Gov. and CAFE have mandated. Fun cars like the Z28 should be reserved for car companies that can afford them in good times. Neither exist here and now. Besides the 2010 Camaro V6, RS and SS will do justice for the brand just fine.
02-16-2009, 04:41 PM
#21
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The sad thing is that due to GM's reliance on government money they feel compelled to be 'green-focused' and look at cars such as the ZR-1, CTS-V, Camaro or any V8 car with trepidation. This should NOT be the case. The fact that these V8 cars would constitute a smaller percentage of their entire line sales, but at the same time likely be their most popular vehicles, possibly boosting sales of minivans and compact cars makes them necessary.
At the same time Ford seems to not be concerned at all with releasing faster, more powerful, V8 powered Mustangs seemingly every 5 minuets! They know that Mustangs and F-150's are what get people to dealerships and the cooler the vehicle, the more car and truck sales they will stimulate.
GM needs to cut back to the bare minimum across their brands, and I feel eliminating several entire brands is actually necessary for their survival, which should leave them open to focus on 2-3 brands total. This would allow them a bit more freedom to get incredible cars such as the Z28 made. IF they build what's profitable, and not JUST what's appears to be the most 'green' cars to appease the government I think they will do well. Besides does anyone really believe that the government is the wisest choice to light the path of financial prosperity for corporate America? What's our national debt up to now?
At the same time Ford seems to not be concerned at all with releasing faster, more powerful, V8 powered Mustangs seemingly every 5 minuets! They know that Mustangs and F-150's are what get people to dealerships and the cooler the vehicle, the more car and truck sales they will stimulate.
GM needs to cut back to the bare minimum across their brands, and I feel eliminating several entire brands is actually necessary for their survival, which should leave them open to focus on 2-3 brands total. This would allow them a bit more freedom to get incredible cars such as the Z28 made. IF they build what's profitable, and not JUST what's appears to be the most 'green' cars to appease the government I think they will do well. Besides does anyone really believe that the government is the wisest choice to light the path of financial prosperity for corporate America? What's our national debt up to now?
02-16-2009, 06:18 PM
#22
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Location: Stockton, Ca. USA
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Just mass produse the LS7 Camaro that is has been going around to shows and call it the Z28. Lose 4 of the airbags, which will save money and still be legal for the road, lightweight wheels, and seats. Also add a lightweight exhaust, have you seen the exhaust on the SS, that thing looks like it weighs a ton. Do these things and you will have a 505 HP Camaro that is about 200 pounds lighter, and perfectly street legal.
02-16-2009, 06:26 PM
#23
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it ain't gonna happen. GM already put the Camaro on a diet. It probably would have weighed within 50# of the G8 otherwise. The car is built like a tank because they originally planned on sharing the platform with the Impala and they most likely already planned on putting a supercharged engine in it. They also heard the cries of people who complained about having weak parts, so they overbuilt it.
02-17-2009, 04:22 AM
#24
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actually you probably could drop 500 lbs pretty easily. between using fiberglass instead of metal for panels, lighter wheels instead of 30-32lbs rims, take out alot of electrica bs in the interior, racing seats. it wouldnt bee that hard to drop that much weight and still stay in the safety zone.
that is basically what i plan on doing to my camaro. ive already found wheels that weigh 18lbs a piece. and their actually 22". im going to do fiberglass or carbon fiber hood and maybe trunk if i can find one. lighter drive shaft. even changing exhaust systems is lighter most of the time. as far as interior im not going to guy it out. i paid for the 2ss and i want to enjoy the plush interior. but as far as everything else i do to the car, my goal is to drop as much weight off of it as possible. i guess this will be my version of a z28.
that is basically what i plan on doing to my camaro. ive already found wheels that weigh 18lbs a piece. and their actually 22". im going to do fiberglass or carbon fiber hood and maybe trunk if i can find one. lighter drive shaft. even changing exhaust systems is lighter most of the time. as far as interior im not going to guy it out. i paid for the 2ss and i want to enjoy the plush interior. but as far as everything else i do to the car, my goal is to drop as much weight off of it as possible. i guess this will be my version of a z28.
Car rims haven't weighed 32 pounds a piece since those thick steel wheels dissappeared. The Corvette rims on my car are under 20 pounds each. The driveshaft is already aluminum, and not advisible to replace it unless you want to use your 420 lbs/ft of torque and 3800 pound curb weight to find new ways to destroy metal tubing... the driveshaft isn't too much heavier than a new car rim, BTW.
I suppose you could save about 20 or so pounds switching to a single exhaust, but thinking you'll save any weight and keep duals isn't realistic.
Your proposals would be lucky to trim 100 pounds from the car, let alone 500.
The fact is that the Camaro SS is a car engineered to handle at least 500 horsepower and take serious hits and keep you alive. The body is a tank. The drivetrain is made for the expected drag racing abuse some owners will put their Camaro through without breaking itself into scrap metal. Engineers don't simply add metal for S&Gs, and beancounters aren't willing to pay for metal that does no good or exotic materials that have no clear advantage or cost/value.
There is a saying:
"If something could be easily done, then it would have been done already".
Forget about taking weight out of the Camaro... you can't do it.
If weight is paramount and you want a V8, then buy a 3500 pound Mustang GT. Even V6 powered Infinity G37 coupes weigh as much as Camaros today.
Last edited by guionM; 02-17-2009 at 04:27 AM.
02-17-2009, 07:20 AM
#25
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They NEED the Z28 if not for image alone. This company needs to create excitement and traffic in showrooms in ANY way possible. The top, or should I say over-the-top image vehicles do that. Letting the competition "win" the performance games isn't gonna make GM look any better.
Yeah, but I don't really think we're asking for that though. I think most of us would be happy with a worked LS3 or maybe a less fancy LS7 with freer flowing exhaust, seriously retuned suspension, and bigger brakes. Give it it's own look all-around outside, mandatory stripes, and Z28 emblems. Kinda like a 1LE times 10, which is basically the Z28 formula anyway.
Yeah, but I don't really think we're asking for that though. I think most of us would be happy with a worked LS3 or maybe a less fancy LS7 with freer flowing exhaust, seriously retuned suspension, and bigger brakes. Give it it's own look all-around outside, mandatory stripes, and Z28 emblems. Kinda like a 1LE times 10, which is basically the Z28 formula anyway.
Last edited by IZ28; 02-17-2009 at 07:31 AM.
02-17-2009, 09:07 AM
#26
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Actually, you can not drop 500 pounds easily from the Camaro SS. Hood, trunk, and fenders combined are about 100 pounds, so whatever you replace them with will be less weight loss than that.
Car rims haven't weighed 32 pounds a piece since those thick steel wheels dissappeared. The Corvette rims on my car are under 20 pounds each. The driveshaft is already aluminum, and not advisible to replace it unless you want to use your 420 lbs/ft of torque and 3800 pound curb weight to find new ways to destroy metal tubing... the driveshaft isn't too much heavier than a new car rim, BTW.
I suppose you could save about 20 or so pounds switching to a single exhaust, but thinking you'll save any weight and keep duals isn't realistic.
Your proposals would be lucky to trim 100 pounds from the car, let alone 500.
The fact is that the Camaro SS is a car engineered to handle at least 500 horsepower and take serious hits and keep you alive. The body is a tank. The drivetrain is made for the expected drag racing abuse some owners will put their Camaro through without breaking itself into scrap metal. Engineers don't simply add metal for S&Gs, and beancounters aren't willing to pay for metal that does no good or exotic materials that have no clear advantage or cost/value.
There is a saying:
"If something could be easily done, then it would have been done already".
Forget about taking weight out of the Camaro... you can't do it.
If weight is paramount and you want a V8, then buy a 3500 pound Mustang GT. Even V6 powered Infinity G37 coupes weigh as much as Camaros today.
Car rims haven't weighed 32 pounds a piece since those thick steel wheels dissappeared. The Corvette rims on my car are under 20 pounds each. The driveshaft is already aluminum, and not advisible to replace it unless you want to use your 420 lbs/ft of torque and 3800 pound curb weight to find new ways to destroy metal tubing... the driveshaft isn't too much heavier than a new car rim, BTW.
I suppose you could save about 20 or so pounds switching to a single exhaust, but thinking you'll save any weight and keep duals isn't realistic.
Your proposals would be lucky to trim 100 pounds from the car, let alone 500.
The fact is that the Camaro SS is a car engineered to handle at least 500 horsepower and take serious hits and keep you alive. The body is a tank. The drivetrain is made for the expected drag racing abuse some owners will put their Camaro through without breaking itself into scrap metal. Engineers don't simply add metal for S&Gs, and beancounters aren't willing to pay for metal that does no good or exotic materials that have no clear advantage or cost/value.
There is a saying:
"If something could be easily done, then it would have been done already".
Forget about taking weight out of the Camaro... you can't do it.
If weight is paramount and you want a V8, then buy a 3500 pound Mustang GT. Even V6 powered Infinity G37 coupes weigh as much as Camaros today.
om sure your wheels on your vette arent 20: either. they are probably 17 and 18 (c5) or 18 and 19(c6). the spokes on the vettes are also quite a bit thinner, thus , to help the weight loss. the camaro spokes are alot thicker than the rims on the vette. also the paint that is put on the rims give it a little bit of weight compared to a regular polished wheel.
as far s drive shafts their are carbon fiber drive shafts now that are much lighter than the stock. the wheels i am putting on my camaro will actually save me 50 lbs off of the car including the tires. even if i can replace the hood and trunk ill shave off 20+lbs right there im at almost 100lbs just on changing a few parts. as far as the exhaust, i know stock exhaust are always bigger and heavier for emmisions and aftermarket are quite a bit lighter even if they are still duals, which i will be keeping. whether i chose borla or corsca, i dont know which one weighs less yet. i dont have those numbers.
yeah i know my buddy has a new g37 coupe. theres alot of mechanical bs on that car. and its not even the all wheel drive.
as far as losing the weight from the plant, its not possible because they have to passs certain regulations. i know this. but there is no stopping me from doing it on my own. everything i have decided to change thus far on my new camaro will get me atleast 100 lbs off of the car. not to mention how much quicker the car will be due to the weight loss on the moving parts(driveshaft,wheels) 500 lbs may seem a little much to some people but its possible and if not achieved, then the lbs per hp has sure gone down. which will in the end still make a quicker car.
Last edited by 2010_5thgen; 02-17-2009 at 10:17 AM.
02-17-2009, 09:31 AM
#27
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Come to think about it, I seem to remember that GM will be offering a very special edition Camaro that is super lightweight.... I would actually be surprised if this package weighs over 3000 pounds!
Ah, here is a thread about it...
https://www.camaroz28.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=657951
Ah, here is a thread about it...
https://www.camaroz28.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=657951
02-17-2009, 09:32 AM
#28
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Hemlock, Mich.
Posts: 329
I really don't know why they cant use the Ls7 in a Z/28. I have seen this engine for sale on the net for 13k and the LS3 for $6500. So it should cost GM $6500 more to add the 427, unless its a engine capacity issue.
I would think that they could offer this car for under 40K if they wanted to and even offer a 1SS trim for us guys that don't need or want the Extras. I dont need heated seats in a summer car.
Add some different wheels, hood, spoiler, tighten the suspention and you have a Z/28. I assume all of the cosmetics have been done already.
I would think that they could offer this car for under 40K if they wanted to and even offer a 1SS trim for us guys that don't need or want the Extras. I dont need heated seats in a summer car.
Add some different wheels, hood, spoiler, tighten the suspention and you have a Z/28. I assume all of the cosmetics have been done already.
02-17-2009, 10:09 AM
#29
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 362
car has not been in the market place since 2002, add to that the base
has 300+HP(
), add to that the SS model. There is a lot here to create excitement. Hopefully in the futrue GM makes the right business
desisicons and becomes healthy again and the Z28 would not be too far
behind.
02-17-2009, 10:16 AM
#30
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: ohio
Posts: 4,482
They NEED the Z28 if not for image alone. This company needs to create excitement and traffic in showrooms in ANY way possible. The top, or should I say over-the-top image vehicles do that. Letting the competition "win" the performance games isn't gonna make GM look any better.
Yeah, but I don't really think we're asking for that though. I think most of us would be happy with a worked LS3 or maybe a less fancy LS7 with freer flowing exhaust, seriously retuned suspension, and bigger brakes. Give it it's own look all-around outside, mandatory stripes, and Z28 emblems. Kinda like a 1LE times 10, which is basically the Z28 formula anyway.
Yeah, but I don't really think we're asking for that though. I think most of us would be happy with a worked LS3 or maybe a less fancy LS7 with freer flowing exhaust, seriously retuned suspension, and bigger brakes. Give it it's own look all-around outside, mandatory stripes, and Z28 emblems. Kinda like a 1LE times 10, which is basically the Z28 formula anyway.