Mikko O

While I can sympathize with your plight, it has been made quite clear that the return of the Firebird is not in the cards at this time. Lets all be happy that the Camaro is coming back and leave it at that for the time being. Lets not spoil the good karma and excitement that almost all of us share that Scott and GM are bringing our beloved Camaro back from hiatus.
I have had the sheer driving pleasure of owning seven Camaro's, most of them Z28's. I cannot thank Scott enough for keeping our faith in the future of this icon and lobbying the top GM brass for it's return. Can't wait for
the Camaro to kick the Mustangs butt.!! Can't wait till January 9th.

I wish Scott a very Happy New Year and to GM, a return to greatness.
And to all on this message board, the very best of health and happiness
for 2006.

cpformula

I've had difficulty understanding the mentality that "We" should be greatful the Camaro is coming back. Why is it the consumer if the one who should be greatful when it's the corporation that screwed the consumer in the first place?????

Don't get me wrong, I'm pleased the Camaro is coming back. I'm just tired of hearing the same reteric from GM and it's employees when in fact MOST of what they tell us doesn't make any sense in the first place. It's as if they make it up as they go along.

I've been a GM fan as far back as I can remember. I just wish GM had been a fan of ME as far back as they can remember.

JasonD

Kinda late for that, and a bit off the subject. Maybe this should have been a new thread.

I think "screwed" is too strong of a word to use. "Screwed" means deceived and stolen from. There are a LOT of people out there who love '55 Chevys, but they don't say nasty things about GM for not making them any longer.

I gotta respectfully disagree with that one as well. I have never heard them say that they will make a Firebird and then say they will not make it. They have said very little about the subject to my knowledge. You can't keep asking the same question and expect to eventually get the different answer that you want to hear and also accuse them of making things up as they go along.

Unfortunately, people being a fan of a car doesn't keep a car in production. Refer to the '55 Chevy mentioning above. People buying cars is what keeps a car being made. When you buy a car, you get the car you paid for. There are no additional customer loyalty plans in place to keep making a car in the future because you bought the same model YEARS before.

Don't think that I don't sympathize with you, I agree that it is a bummer that they stop making the Firebird and apparently plan to make the Camaro live on. This is a Camaro AND Firebird site, after all and this is sort of bittersweet for many of us. The fact of the matter is that Firebird sales in the past seemingly won't justify bringing the car back, I am sorry to say. Perhaps if Firebird sales were higher in the later years things might be different, this is just a guess.

cpformula

I'll agree that screwed may be too harsh a word. GM, though, does have quite the reputation of making poor decisions that significantly effect the consumer (ie. Impalla SS discontinued at the height of it's popularity in the 90's).

Don't get me wrong... I'm not Anti-GM. Everything I own is a GM product and when possible, I steer friends and family toward the GM line. I'm not upset over the fact the Fbody was killed off. I understand why it was done and it was a sound business decision. Probably one of the most gutsy yet intelligent decisions GM has made.

When the question was asked about whether the Firebird would (if ever brought back) share the same platform as the Camaro, the answer given just doesn't make any sense no matter how you analyse it. I'm not looking for a happy cheerful feel good answer. I'd settle for an answer that makes sense. To say the Firebird and Camaro wouldn't share the same platform because GM doesn't want it's cars competing against each other for sales..... that just doesn't add up when you see what GM is currently doing (Sierra/Silverado, Solstice/Sky etc.).

I'm thrilled the Camaro is coming back. I love the designs I'm seeing. If GM keeps the price respectable, I'd buy one. GM (and even Scott will tell you this) has made a reputation of NOT taking the consumer into account when decisions are made. They claim they are now trying to rectify this and only time will tell. In the meantime, a good place to start would be to sit down and explain the REAL reasons things are being done the way they are. We're not necessarily looking for feel good answers.... just honest ones.

Fbodfather

well...I guess I should chime in here.

First.....I would say that "never" is a longgggggggggg time.....so I don't want to say never.

Second....I understand your being upset. That's actually, in some ways, a good thing....it shows your passion for the Firebird...and while it may sound trite, we're glad that people feel so strongly toward one (or more) of our brands.......

Interesting tidbit.......the Colorado was a 'chevy only' product.....but the Canyon was executed in record time when it was decided that GMC needed an entry as well.........

Now.......I don't think there's a person within GM that would be happier than I if the decision was made to bring the Firebird back.......AS LONG AS THE ENTRY DESERVED THE FIREBIRD NAME!!!!......(and that's important!!! It must be V8/RWD/and all the other things that make a Firebird a Firebird!!!!)

That said, I also know what shape Ford and GM are in these days. Every dollar counts......and we have to wisely allocate the available dollars and personnel to make each dollar and person count ...'the best bang for the buck, so to speak'.........and I'm not convinced (and I know you don't want to hear this.....) that the wisest choice RIGHT NOW...is to do two "Fcars"......because like it or not, they do compete with each other. Yes, there are some Firebird owners that will never buy a Camaro and vice versa....but the numbers are not in the 80% range.

As to the popularity of Impala in the 90s.....that's one of the most misunderstood issues -- in my opinion-- of the past ten years.

Care to guess how many Impala SSs were built in the 94-96 model years?

.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.less than 67,000 units for the three model years combined. Yup...they flew off the shelves in 1994 and early 1995....but by the end of the 1995 model year, they were in dealer inventory.....sales slowed......and we had to throw rebates into the formula to move 'em out so we could build more..........

Now........we sold over 200,000 Impalas last year......the OLD body style......5 years into a lifecycle. I make this point for a reason:

>Everything GM and Ford does.....EVERYTHING.....MUST be with the stockholder in mind. Like it or not, we're in the business to make money...the stockholder and Wall Street demand it! If we were making billions of dollars, I'd be screaming from the top of all 7 towers in the RenCen......that we need a Firebird and we need it NOW!!!! But a quick look at reality will show that GM is losing Billions........and we need to turn that around NOW or we aren't gonna be here! (yes, I believe we'll be here for a long time.....assuming that the economy doesn't dip into recession and Delphi does not go on strike....)

So........yup.......I understand your passion for the Firebird...probably more than you'll ever know........and yes, I think we need a Firebird.......and yes, I realize that there are a lot of upset Firebird (and Pontiac) enthusiasts out there.........and yes, this has been a long post, and no, you probably still aren't happy with the answer......but I DO believe I owe you an explanation.
Please...do not assume you will never see another Firebird......

Oh yeah.....as to the Silverado/Sierra and Solstice/Sky .......let me address those next........(in another post)

Fbodfather

There, in my opinion, will continue to be both a Silverado and A Sierra pickup truck for well into the future.......for several reasons......some being:

>Profit......that's where the dough is..........
>Size of market.......we sell more Silverados ALONE....than the entire "Sport coupe" market..........in fact, we sell over TWICE as many Silverados as all cars in the sport coupe market combined......that's a pretty powerful statement.
>Dealer Bodies.........we have francise agreements with our dealers. Can you imagine what would happen to a GMC dealer if we suddenly stopped building Sierras? (no, we couldn't just give 'em Silverados.......francise laws in most states forbid doing that) Further, when the 900 series pickups are introduced, you'll see even more differentiation between Chevy and GMC.


Now.......Solstice and Sky......first, I think you'll see a wider delta in terms of pricing....both are 'halo' cars for their Divisions........(yes, Firebird would be a halo as well....)....and both are very low volume.......in order for the business case to work, I suspect that the Solstice could not survive very long without the added volume from Sky. I'm not a subject expert here.....but knowing what I know about this industry, I think I'm on safe ground making that statement. Do not assume that the Camaro will be the only product in whatever plant is decided upon. There will be other entries in that plant....and the other entries may be surprising to you. (sorry, I can't say more than that at this point in time.....)

So......yes, there are good strong rational decisions for why there is a Silverado and a Sierra........and a Solstice and a Sky.

And....perhaps as the market continues to change, there MAY be a reason to have Camaro and Firebird. But I have yet to see the 2-door market grow. Yes, Mustang sales are up, but the coupe market continues to contract across all market segments. That's simply due to consumer preferences. You can advertise til the cows come home, but you cannot force a market.

Anyway......I've been long winded here.......and again, I'm sorry I can't give you (or anyone) the answers they want to hear.......but I'm just trying to shed some light on the issues raised.

Keep the faith! You nor I know what the future may hold!

(and hey, perhaps a Camaro is right for you until the Firebird comes back!)

Capn Pete

Long winded, maybe , but worth the read .

I've never really understood the whole Chevy Silverado vs. GMC Sierra thing until you explained that ... it makes a little more sense now . I guess the same applies throughout the line-up (like Blazer/Jimmy, Venture/Montana, Cavalier/Sunfire, Cobalt/Persuit, etc...).

Scott, you really make things make sense around here! Where would we be without you?!

Only 12 more days 'til January 9th . 17 days until the public show!!

graham

Cool explanation.

Some folks forget why you guys sell cars sometimes and fail to admit that Firebird never sold well.

bbqz28

Thanks for your time and input Scott. We are lucky to have you as a middleman between us and GM. I saw and article about you in a Camaro Performance mag and it was basically your history growing up at your family's car dealership to where you are today.

I myself would like to see the Firebird come back also. I've owned 7 Fbodies (2 2nd gens, 2 3rd gens & 3 4th gens) in the past 18 years and 4 of them have been either a Firebird or a Trans Am. Let's hope that the Camaro really takes off and that interest in Firebirds grows to at least another concept car. It would be so easy to put a different hood and fenders, different interior, taillights & headlights and different wheels on the new car to resemble the 69 T/A.

Whether a Firebird is built or not, I'll be in line at the dealership as soon as this new car is ready to sell.

cpformula

Scott, thank you for your input into this. I was quite surprised.... AND pleased to hear from you in this thread. As I stated earlier, I'm not looking for feel good answers to questions so don't feel the need to apologize for your answers. I wasn't saying there needed to be a Firebird in the future although I would certianly hope there is. I just didn't (and I'm not sure if I do now) understand why the comparison between the Camaro/Firebird vs Sierra/Silverado or Solstice/Sky didn't hold water if in fact GM doesn't want to manufacture two cars that compete against each other in a product line.

I may be way off base here, but I seem to remember "someone" mentioning that GM may in fact force the hand of dealerships to combine with each other. I'm not certain if this is along the same line of what we are talking about right now (GM not wanting to compete against each other) but it seems like GM is running in circles trying to figure out how to stop the bleeding.

I fully understand that GM is a corporation and their #1 purpose is to turn a profit for it's shareholders. I also understand that GM's bread and butter right now is trucks (could this be.... and please correct me if I am wrong.... why GM turned the Impalla SS plant into a truck plant? ). I also understand that GM is sweating bullets after sinking all this money into the new truck lines when gas prices are at an all time high.

All this said, I appreciate your input and taking the time out of your busy schedule to address these issues. I'm glad the Camaro is coming back and I'll continue to be a fan of GM products..... just don't ask me to trust GM right now to "do the right thing" in terms of customer loyalty.

cgman69

Scott you are my only hope at this point as far as I'm concerned.
GM has been such a let down for the last few years and it's nice to know that people like you are employed at your company.
Just by taking the time to speak to us gives me faith everytime I see a new mustang coming down the road.
The politics with GM drive me crazy and I always calm down by saying to myself that there must be alot of real car guys that want the same thing that most of us want and that is CAMARO and RWD.
Anyway I most certainly will keep the faith and try to stay calm whenever
I see that new mustang coming down the road.
Come on GM MAKE ME PROUD!

z-mann

Thanks for info and all that you do for us on here. We are all looking forward to the new concept being unveiled.

5thGen

Part of the problem with GM is that they need to sell 500,000 (lifecycle) of any one product to make it profitable.

I think GM needs to re-structure itself to drop that number drastically, to at least 10% of that.

That way, when you do have a car that sells 500k, it is that much more profitable.

Todays economy of scale is different from what it was when GM had 50% of the market, I think it's time to adjust.

ADV1

Not to change the subject or to hijack this thread but Scott, when you mention market driven vehilces I have to wonder how long I need to wait until I get an Impala sized car that has both the power and looks combo to make waves? I guess what I'm saying is this... I LOVE my 05 Impala I really do but I'm a camaro guy through and through, I need my Impala however for work (I'm a salesmen that puts on 1K/week in miles). I just wish that the styling was better on it. While I like the interior better on the 06 the body just fell flat. I'm wanting something 300C like... A nice V8 that has great power and efficiency to boot packaged in a RWD sedan that I can afford that looks agressive yet sleek. I'd love to have a CTS-V but wouldn't we all. This is a car I'm going to have for 1.5-2 years and then pitching because of the miles but I want to feel like myself again in my work car!

I cannot help but think that with the success of the 300's that I'm alone on this.

Thanks!

I am also ready for my new Camaro any time so when ever it's released I'd love to make a salesmans day with the purchase of two cars! a Camaro and hopefully a great car like I just described!

Capn Pete

^ ^ ^ you mean something like the '94 - '96 Impala SS?