poSSum

I'd like a variation of the Solstice ZOK formula.

I.e. the brakes and suspension hardware from the top dog available on a mid-level package.

DAKMOR

Isn't that wait Chevy did with the LS1?

If you're going to buy a stripper model for the purpose of modifiying it, then you probably plan to change the engine. which means it would be cheaper to just tear out a V6 on a base model, than the V8 on one of the premium models. Plus the money you'll save from not buying the premium model!

But I guess if you don't want to change the motor and just want to roll in a car without power windows, air conditioning, or power locks, then just buy an old car without those, and transplant the engine.

Hmm, I see a growing trend here...

JB22

To make a long story short, its all about $$.

It costs GM more money that it will save you "period"

DvBoard

I'm sure if you were willing to pay MORE for a stripper car it could be done, but seeing as how most won't pay more for less, it ain't happening.

CCCCCYA

I can perfectly understand the argument for the door panels, and the A/C. The other electronic junk I can't find a good reason for though. If there is a radio delete option, then simply cover the plug (or just don't plug it in). If there's no NAV, then don't plug anything into that connector either. I'm back to my original question of why it would cost money to leave something completely off the car.

I would dearly LOVE a radio delete (and C'mon now, how much could a stamped steel or plastic radio delete cover possibly cost ?) If it changes the manufacturing process THAT much, just ship the thing in a bag with the car and let the dealer or the buyer put it in the dash. If I want a radio in there, it's not going to be the factory junk. No offense meant about the radio, but we ALL know the aftermarket gear is light years ahead of ANY car makers factory radio. NAV? umm, that's called weight to me and I would never in a million years even turn it on. Onstar? Useless. I have a cell phone and a blackberry; I'm plenty connected and don't need/want more.

My point to this was to try and figure out why it typically ADDS cost to leave a componant off the car. Not plugging it in costs nothing and leaves it on the shelf at the factory. I want to be able to lower the cost of the car by leaving off crap I don't want/need, not increase it.

Good-phd: Nice riddler btw

Dave C.

shock6906

It adds cost to make different parts because they have to not only design the part, but they have to make the tools and the machines to manufacture the part. It might only be a 10 dollar piece of plastic, but it's made with a several thousand dollar piece of machinery. It also costs the manufacturer countless thousands of dollars to pay the designers to design the part. Both of which are funds they wouldn't have to pay out if they only make one part in the first place. I'm sure there's more to it than that, but I don't feel like thinking it out any farther.

fastball

You have to understand, radios in todays cars are NOT like radios in cars even 5 years ago. Because of integration and multiplexing (I'm sure Fbodfather knows what that is), the "head unit" on most cars made today (and I'm sure will be made on the Camaro) is not really a head unit anymore. In the old days (read 5 years ago), the head unit had the CD mechanism, display, function buttons, tuner, and amplifier all built in to one simple, easy to remove box that measured about 6"x8"x4". To delete this radio was as easy as poping the cheap plastic trim piece around it off the dash and turning 4 screws.

Today, more and more factory car stereos are integrated into the climate control, have external amplifiers, and even some MFGs tie the radio, clock, and CD track memory into the car's CPU. The "head unit" you see in the dash may only be a control pannel consising of nothing but a circuit board with buttons and the CD mechanism. The tuner, amplifier, and memory may be in other parts of the car. Hidden, built into the main wire harness, and impossible to change or remove.

CCCCCYA

The delete plate could be simply outsourced to a local fab shop that could crank out 10000 copies for very little each. We have things like this made around here all the time and I would certainly hope it could be made locally in Detroit, or wherever the car ends up being built as well. The cost argument doesn't hold up there.

As to the integrated head unit... My 02SS can crank and drive fine with no radio plugged in, as can my 04 Ford truck, as can my folks 07 300c. In reality, there are very very few cars out there that have a radio muxed (yes I know what a mutliplexer is) into the elctrical system to the point that they wont work correctly without it. I'm not buying that argument either.

I think it really boils down to the fact that they wont make millions off of something like this, nevermind that it might actually help sell a few more units for almost no cost. Companies nowdays have gotten to the point where if they can't make millions off of something, then they don't see a point to doing it at all. The accountants run the company nowdays, not the engineers or the people who made the company great to begin with.

fastball

The radios in your 02SS, your 04 Ford, and the 300C are NOT integrated. They are old fashioned, stand alone radio head units. Of course they can be easily removed and any kind of plate could be used to cover them.

Integrated means the radio is not a separate part but part of the entire dash board or center stack.

While I do agree with your point that profit is the driving force behind any company, let me list some current and near future GM vehicles that all have integrated stereos that can't be removed easily:

Sky
CTS
STS
Enclave
Outlook
Acadia

You want to remove the radio and "simply put a cover plate" on those cars, you can say goodby to your driver information center and climate control as well.

I'm not sure if that's all of them or if GM makes a few more I don't remember off the top of my head. My point is that the new Camaro will probably be integrated, and may even have multiplexing.

Perhaps Scott could chime in on this one - I don't think it would be giving away top secret information if he knows if the Camaro's stereo will have multiplex technology.

Jeeze, I feel real silly debating with someone about such frivolous details. Someone else in another thread was complaining that the Camaro will probably have a tilt/telescopic wheel and yet someone else said they won't buy it because there will be no t-tops.

I'm just waiting to see someone complain about 4 wheel disc brakes, and will not buy the car if they can't get 4 solid drums.

CCCCCYA

I'm not debating anything. I'm simply asking why I'm forced to purchase things I don't want or need. But I'm a linux kind of guy, so I suppose it is to be expected.

This subject is just something that has annoyed me since my first car purchase. First thing to find itself in the trash was the radio every time, and I can do without all the whizbang gizmo's too. I've just been forced to buy them as part of non negotiable pre-package deals and it's getting tiring.

I'll just let this thread die since it seems most don't seem to care much anyway.

Dave C.

Red89GTA

I was in the middle of a nice reply when IE quit on me, lets see if I can get back in the flow...

I agree that I'd like to be able to pick and choose what goes on my car, but thats increasingly just not going to happen.

BTW, see if you can take any of these radios out w/o messing up anything else:

Mazda6


Infiniti G35



Dodge Avenger - possibly the most accessible??

Big Als Z

There is more money in higher options and packages. I also think that GM wants to put together a performance package then just put a big engine in a Camaro and then saddle it with the base equipment.
I think that more people are going to buy a loaded Camaro, which GM will make more profit, then a big V8 in a base model wrapper, which will mean low profit.

Bert02SS

That would be me, among many others. I moved up to a C6 with the clear top. Why wait for an unavailable option that I did not regard as frivolous?

Z28Wilson

I'm with you Bert. T-tops are a glaring omission on the 5th Gen IMHO.

Casull

I understand the concept of not wanting to pay for something you have no use for; however, I think you are really splitting hairs here. I mean, if they left out the radio it would save you what, maybe a couple hundred? As for power windows/locks/mirrors/etc, that technology has been around for so long now that it is no longer economical to even offer the manual stuff.

If weight is your concern, what is deleting these options going to save you... maybe 100-150 lbs? What will that shave off of your 1/4 mile times? Not to mention, how often will you use the car as a drag car? Again, if you are going to split haris over that kind of weight, then you are far more serious about racing than 99.9% of the people who will purchase this car and you should probably just build a drag car instead.

I think this is just another discussion brought to you by the "engine in a box' crowd.