Riddle me this...
04-24-2007, 10:56 PM
#1
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Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Oakland City, IN
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Riddle me this...
OK, here's a question I've never been able to get a satisfactory answer for.
WHY can't automakers make available stripper models of musclecars easily?
Why are there all these pseduo hoops to jump through or being required to "know someone" from the corporate office? Why can't they just make it a cheaper retail car and leave a bunch of stuff OFF? It's not like you have to develope tooling and processes to NOT put a part on a car do you? I mean c'mon, it's the poster child for lean manufacturing. Just eliminate the steps!
Right now, I'm on the fence for a new camaro in 09. If I can get a stripper version without all the extra crap on it, it just might pull me onto the purchasing side of that fence. But if it costs me MORE or just as much as an optioned model, then it's going to be a no go.. I've already got cars with the bells and whistles.. I want my dollar to buy performance, plain and simple.
Someone enlighten me please..
Dave C.
WHY can't automakers make available stripper models of musclecars easily?
Why are there all these pseduo hoops to jump through or being required to "know someone" from the corporate office? Why can't they just make it a cheaper retail car and leave a bunch of stuff OFF? It's not like you have to develope tooling and processes to NOT put a part on a car do you? I mean c'mon, it's the poster child for lean manufacturing. Just eliminate the steps!
Right now, I'm on the fence for a new camaro in 09. If I can get a stripper version without all the extra crap on it, it just might pull me onto the purchasing side of that fence. But if it costs me MORE or just as much as an optioned model, then it's going to be a no go.. I've already got cars with the bells and whistles.. I want my dollar to buy performance, plain and simple.
Someone enlighten me please..
Dave C.
Last edited by CCCCCYA; 04-24-2007 at 11:06 PM.
04-25-2007, 01:28 AM
#2
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I tend to agree. Are you talking AC delete? Stereo delete? Navigation delete? My guess is that the computer is programmed to have certain things in there. Then I suppose it is cheaper to make a "mold" with everything on it - parts - than it is to redesign the production line - labor - . ???
To me that is the reason that just about every new car has AC, power locks, power windows. Because the market demands it, it is cheaper to ditch the cheaper manual stuff and make one model.
Remember the days when AC was an option?
That being said - I want the options
To me that is the reason that just about every new car has AC, power locks, power windows. Because the market demands it, it is cheaper to ditch the cheaper manual stuff and make one model.
Remember the days when AC was an option?
That being said - I want the options
04-25-2007, 02:24 AM
#3
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It’s the simple concept of bundling........it saves money and time.
Someone elaborate, its 2:30 and I'm off to bed.
bundling:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Product_bundling
Someone elaborate, its 2:30 and I'm off to bed.
bundling:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Product_bundling
04-25-2007, 03:26 AM
#4
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A/C delete - do you put on a shorter belt or design a dummy pully to put in its place.
Power windows delete - now you have to design a manual system.
Power locks delete - design something to put in the door where the power switch was.
With those deletes you have to design, develop and track more parts. More parts mean more chances for something to go wrong and delay it.
04-25-2007, 06:41 AM
#5
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Not to mention the amount of people that want a bare bones stripper model of a car would be fairly low in the whole scheme of things. It would probably cost more to develop the stripper car than they would get back in sales.
04-25-2007, 07:25 AM
#6
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Exactly. There simply is no demand for a car without the basic features like A/C, power windows, etc. Even modern day muscle cars. It is cheaper to design these systems into the car than to design two different systems.
04-25-2007, 08:06 AM
#7
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in 500 words or less.........
Let's assume for a minute that there's a large market for a stripped car. (there isn't.......) ......
........manual windows -- would require that we engineer -- design -- and source -- two inside door sets rather than one........ it would also require separate wiring harnesses.......one for a car with power windows -- and one for a car without -- plus two different sets of door trim panels -- COULD be done -- but I'd rather see us spend the money on things such as more power -- and other customer requested features........
..........non-air conditioned -- requires separate cooling system for the vehicle -- in addition to a complex number of wiring harnesses and internal ductwork/circuits/relays/servos/etc........and then a separate HVAC head for the instrument panel...........
.........that's just two examples -- and the costs are genuinely staggering.
Trust me -- if we felt that it would add sales and not cost an arm and a leg -- we -- along with a whole bunch of other manufacturers would do this.
Yes -- there are a few of you on this board that would love to have a stripped car -- but I daresay in the final analysis we'd sell -- what? -- an extra 100 cars?
My intention is not to be 'flip' -- but rather to explain that there are very good business reasons for not offering a stripped car (or truck)
Let's assume for a minute that there's a large market for a stripped car. (there isn't.......) ......
........manual windows -- would require that we engineer -- design -- and source -- two inside door sets rather than one........ it would also require separate wiring harnesses.......one for a car with power windows -- and one for a car without -- plus two different sets of door trim panels -- COULD be done -- but I'd rather see us spend the money on things such as more power -- and other customer requested features........
..........non-air conditioned -- requires separate cooling system for the vehicle -- in addition to a complex number of wiring harnesses and internal ductwork/circuits/relays/servos/etc........and then a separate HVAC head for the instrument panel...........
.........that's just two examples -- and the costs are genuinely staggering.
Trust me -- if we felt that it would add sales and not cost an arm and a leg -- we -- along with a whole bunch of other manufacturers would do this.
Yes -- there are a few of you on this board that would love to have a stripped car -- but I daresay in the final analysis we'd sell -- what? -- an extra 100 cars?
My intention is not to be 'flip' -- but rather to explain that there are very good business reasons for not offering a stripped car (or truck)
Last edited by Fbodfather; 04-25-2007 at 08:09 AM.
04-25-2007, 08:51 AM
#9
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it was probably more than that during the 4th gen era, but those 1LE that started back in 93 as hardcore racers ended up as a Suspension Package for all the later 4th Gens that SLP created as an option. Gm decided to kill the 1LE option as a hardcore racer because there wasn't enough demand for it. So, leason learned! If the 1LE comes back it would probably be as a Suspension Package but with all the other goodies. AC, Power Seats, Power Windows etc etc. If you are hardcore enough you will just remove all of that. 
04-25-2007, 09:20 AM
#10
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........manual windows -- would require that we engineer -- design -- and source -- two inside door sets rather than one........ it would also require separate wiring harnesses.......one for a car with power windows -- and one for a car without -- plus two different sets of door trim panels -- COULD be done -- but I'd rather see us spend the money on things such as more power -- and other customer requested features........
04-25-2007, 11:06 AM
#11
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04-25-2007, 11:15 AM
#12
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I wouldnt have guessed someone would make me happy I had wind up windows. I hated reaching across to roll down the pass side. and then try to get it back up while I was driving. But they did last 240k miles
04-25-2007, 11:52 AM
#13
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Stereo, Nav, and A/C. Lets assume the only thing I have to change is the center console...
I can offer all 3together for $2000. I only had to make 1 console.
---- Or ----
I can offer each individually, and instead of desining and building 1 console... I can design and build 8 One for people who want none of the above, One for people who want all of the above...
One for people who just want stereo, One for people who just want Nav, and One for people who just want AC. And three for people who want some combination of Two...
At which point, each option cost $1,500.... Which includes the "No option" option...
So given the choice between a car that has everything and cost $500 more, and a car that has nothing and is $500 cheaper...
Which are you really going to pick? Thats no riddle.
I can offer all 3together for $2000. I only had to make 1 console.
---- Or ----
I can offer each individually, and instead of desining and building 1 console... I can design and build 8 One for people who want none of the above, One for people who want all of the above...
One for people who just want stereo, One for people who just want Nav, and One for people who just want AC. And three for people who want some combination of Two...
At which point, each option cost $1,500.... Which includes the "No option" option...
So given the choice between a car that has everything and cost $500 more, and a car that has nothing and is $500 cheaper...
Which are you really going to pick? Thats no riddle.
04-25-2007, 01:27 PM
#14
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I understand the PW, PL, AC would be difficult and expensive to make a delete option but I was thinking more like a V8 car with base V6 options. A 4 speaker sound system and a single CD head unit instead of a 10 speaker system with a multi CD head unit, NO HUD, NO NAV, manual seats, etc. I would be more opt to buy something like that than I would a loaded down V8 car.
04-25-2007, 02:02 PM
#15
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I understand the PW, PL, AC would be difficult and expensive to make a delete option but I was thinking more like a V8 car with base V6 options. A 4 speaker sound system and a single CD head unit instead of a 10 speaker system with a multi CD head unit, NO HUD, NO NAV, manual seats, etc. I would be more opt to buy something like that than I would a loaded down V8 car.