Production Speculation Thread.....
01-11-2006, 04:20 PM
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Production Speculation Thread.....
OK, we all know that Maximum Bob has been talking alot since the debut.....
he drove the car onto the stage (which is a very, VERY good sign)
guionM made a comment in this post that got some attention:
Scott said:
now like it says in the title, this is the SPECULATION thread. so this would be the place to put up all the rumors, stuff you heard from GM guys "off the record" and so on. have fun boys.
he drove the car onto the stage (which is a very, VERY good sign)
guionM made a comment in this post that got some attention:
Originally Posted by guionM
OK guys.
After reviewing the video footage I shot at the show, the rear suspension looks exactly like the CAD drawing, meaning the Zeta IRS. The front suspension is supposed to be McPherson Struts, and since Bob Lutz hogged the front of the car for interviews (j/k... though he did
), and I wasn't able to get my recorder underneath the front of the car before they rounded up all of us for the bus, I'm going to have to take the word of the press kit.
Being that the car is 79" wide (nearly 5 inches wider than Cadillac's STS), the rear came from Holden (apparently from the VE), assuming the front is struts, and that the Camaro is going to be based on a car supposedly bigger (wider) than the STS, I'd say we have a cobbled together mule version of the actual chassis guys.
After reviewing the video footage I shot at the show, the rear suspension looks exactly like the CAD drawing, meaning the Zeta IRS. The front suspension is supposed to be McPherson Struts, and since Bob Lutz hogged the front of the car for interviews (j/k... though he did
), and I wasn't able to get my recorder underneath the front of the car before they rounded up all of us for the bus, I'm going to have to take the word of the press kit.Being that the car is 79" wide (nearly 5 inches wider than Cadillac's STS), the rear came from Holden (apparently from the VE), assuming the front is struts, and that the Camaro is going to be based on a car supposedly bigger (wider) than the STS, I'd say we have a cobbled together mule version of the actual chassis guys.
Originally Posted by Fbodfather
well.......we plan to bring it to both The Atlanta Gathering AND Bowling Green........and I'm holding you all to it!
This has been an absolutely amazing week.
I've been dying to see and hear the reaction to the car.......and we're all elated that it's been received so positively. There's evidence that suggests it has been better received than even the C6..........now THAT'S something.
Yes, I think you will see changes...small ones....primarily to the interior......but if you pretty much like what you see, start saving those pennies...........
(I'm not confirming anything at this point in time.............but I'll say it again....for the 15,286,439th time........HAVE FAITH!!!)
This has been an absolutely amazing week.
I've been dying to see and hear the reaction to the car.......and we're all elated that it's been received so positively. There's evidence that suggests it has been better received than even the C6..........now THAT'S something.
Yes, I think you will see changes...small ones....primarily to the interior......but if you pretty much like what you see, start saving those pennies...........
(I'm not confirming anything at this point in time.............but I'll say it again....for the 15,286,439th time........HAVE FAITH!!!)
01-11-2006, 04:27 PM
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Re: Production Speculation Thread.....
adding another one:
Originally Posted by guionM
Boy,.... that news went out fast!
Bob Lutz didn't give a green light, but it seems that they got the reaction they were looking for. Approval is just a formality. BL gave a hint himself when he said "get your money together".
Where are you now, V8 Slayer????
BTW: a few people asked me a question related to this Sunday, and I gave 3 choices.
BL just rejected one choice (which I think died when GM decided to close one of the plants up there).
The other choice is dependent on a 2011 introduction, which would give the current models a chance to run their course and then have time for remodeling... far too late for an introduction that might very well be much earlier, and lacks the flexibility to begin production at any time.
So, you guys who asked (and to the 1 person who posts here who works there) it's perfectly safe to bet the farm on the remaining choice. In retrospect, it's almost embarassing that I didn't realize this from the begining.
My friend at this plant (you know who you are) you were right!
(Hint: "Washington crossing" )
Bob Lutz didn't give a green light, but it seems that they got the reaction they were looking for. Approval is just a formality. BL gave a hint himself when he said "get your money together".
Where are you now, V8 Slayer????
BTW: a few people asked me a question related to this Sunday, and I gave 3 choices.
BL just rejected one choice (which I think died when GM decided to close one of the plants up there).
The other choice is dependent on a 2011 introduction, which would give the current models a chance to run their course and then have time for remodeling... far too late for an introduction that might very well be much earlier, and lacks the flexibility to begin production at any time.
So, you guys who asked (and to the 1 person who posts here who works there) it's perfectly safe to bet the farm on the remaining choice. In retrospect, it's almost embarassing that I didn't realize this from the begining.
My friend at this plant (you know who you are) you were right!
(Hint: "Washington crossing"
)
01-11-2006, 06:23 PM
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Re: Production Speculation Thread.....
Originally posted bygumbydammit
Okay, after reading a lot of posts, I feel the need to chime in. I am one of the lucky few who got to work on the concept this year. So I have been fortunate enough to see it from that point of view. I have been reading a lot of positive feedback, and I want to thank everyone for that. Not because I am the one to thank, but because the people who slaved all year over this concept appreciate it. It's the payoff. Every night and weekend sacrificed makes you wonder if it's worth it, but when you see that car under power and hear that deep GM V8 rumble... Damn I love it.
....
Everyone has an opinion on what they believe should be done, but you HAVE to give props to the design. It isn't watered down, and it is twist and a poke away from production. That's the beauty of it. It was not pie in the sky show vehicle. All of that sheet metal hangs on a real chassis, and almost every criteria was met. A lot of design ideas had to be changed to keep it real as a matter of fact. Bob Lutz is aware of every move, and he wanted it buildable as you see it. This Camaro is the bold statement GM needed. I am a huge muscle car fan, and I have been left wanting in so many cars we've seen lately. The GTO is a great piece of engineering, but every Muscle car fan has to shake his head at the final design. Hopefully, the energy and passion for this camaro will put them on the right track as far as styling.
Okay, after reading a lot of posts, I feel the need to chime in. I am one of the lucky few who got to work on the concept this year. So I have been fortunate enough to see it from that point of view. I have been reading a lot of positive feedback, and I want to thank everyone for that. Not because I am the one to thank, but because the people who slaved all year over this concept appreciate it. It's the payoff. Every night and weekend sacrificed makes you wonder if it's worth it, but when you see that car under power and hear that deep GM V8 rumble... Damn I love it.
....
Everyone has an opinion on what they believe should be done, but you HAVE to give props to the design. It isn't watered down, and it is twist and a poke away from production. That's the beauty of it. It was not pie in the sky show vehicle. All of that sheet metal hangs on a real chassis, and almost every criteria was met. A lot of design ideas had to be changed to keep it real as a matter of fact. Bob Lutz is aware of every move, and he wanted it buildable as you see it. This Camaro is the bold statement GM needed. I am a huge muscle car fan, and I have been left wanting in so many cars we've seen lately. The GTO is a great piece of engineering, but every Muscle car fan has to shake his head at the final design. Hopefully, the energy and passion for this camaro will put them on the right track as far as styling.
01-11-2006, 07:06 PM
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Re: Production Speculation Thread.....
Wanted to share this with you guys (and gals). I e-mailed Maximum Bob, not sure if it was him or one of his assistants who wrote back, but I thought it was cool as hell to get a response!
Thanks, James! We see the situation in very similar terms! We will prevail!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Byrnes"
Sent: 01/11/2006 07:48 PM
To: Bob Lutz
Subject: new Camaro
Mr. Lutz,
First off, Thank You (and the entire Camaro design team) for the wonderful concept that debuted Monday. As a life long Camaro fan, I cannot tell you what it means to me to actually see a new Camaro concept in the flesh (or pixels as the case may be).
I understand resources are tight and that General Motors has been getting hammered in the press (unfairly I might add, in my opinion), but it is my sincere belief that cars like the Camaro, added on top of the smash successes of the HHR, C6 Corvette, C6 Z06, Solstice, Cobalt and now the GMT900 line of SUV's, are the answer to many of the perceived problems. Having said that, I strongly urge you and Mr. Wagoner to give the go ahead to the Camaro project post-haste.
Cars like the new Camaro concept are the recipe for a strong turnaround for GM. The level of quality that recent GM products have brought to the consumer, as well as the technological innovations that make your products class and market leaders, combined with strong design and styling have really given me hope for not only GM, but American industry as a whole.
In closing, thank you again for all of GM's hard work. I look forward to being able to walk into my local Chevrolet dealership and purchase a new SS or Z/28 Camaro in the very near future.
Respectfully,
James K. Byrnes
Thanks, James! We see the situation in very similar terms! We will prevail!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Byrnes"
Sent: 01/11/2006 07:48 PM
To: Bob Lutz
Subject: new Camaro
Mr. Lutz,
First off, Thank You (and the entire Camaro design team) for the wonderful concept that debuted Monday. As a life long Camaro fan, I cannot tell you what it means to me to actually see a new Camaro concept in the flesh (or pixels as the case may be).
I understand resources are tight and that General Motors has been getting hammered in the press (unfairly I might add, in my opinion), but it is my sincere belief that cars like the Camaro, added on top of the smash successes of the HHR, C6 Corvette, C6 Z06, Solstice, Cobalt and now the GMT900 line of SUV's, are the answer to many of the perceived problems. Having said that, I strongly urge you and Mr. Wagoner to give the go ahead to the Camaro project post-haste.
Cars like the new Camaro concept are the recipe for a strong turnaround for GM. The level of quality that recent GM products have brought to the consumer, as well as the technological innovations that make your products class and market leaders, combined with strong design and styling have really given me hope for not only GM, but American industry as a whole.
In closing, thank you again for all of GM's hard work. I look forward to being able to walk into my local Chevrolet dealership and purchase a new SS or Z/28 Camaro in the very near future.
Respectfully,
James K. Byrnes
01-11-2006, 07:07 PM
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Re: Production Speculation Thread.....
here's another one. it's in reply to guionM's plant post.
(for those of you that don't know, Hudson is an insider that posts on C&G. he knows his stuff)
(for those of you that don't know, Hudson is an insider that posts on C&G. he knows his stuff)
Originally Posted by 91_z28_4me
That makes it pretty easy: Willmington Delaware. So the Solstice and Sky will get some bigger brothers with higher production figures to fill up the plant. Although Hudson had previously indicated that 2 new models were due for the plant in the 2007 model year, MY or CY I did not ask. He did also mention that one would be a vert. Does this throw a wrench into the works?
Last edited by turbo96z28; 01-11-2006 at 08:51 PM.
01-11-2006, 07:12 PM
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Re: Production Speculation Thread.....
that's awesome James. very cool (for an SS guy ). thanks for adding it to the mix.
here's another little thing:
). thanks for adding it to the mix. here's another little thing:
Originally Posted by meissenation
Take it as a grain of salt, but I've already heard rumors floating that Lutz already gave the green light for the process to begin immediately after the autoshow, and that some people will be travelling immediately after the show to start the process.
01-11-2006, 07:30 PM
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Re: Production Speculation Thread.....
After the unveiling on Monday, I found myself standing next to Jim Perkins. He was holding court and showing off a card that someone (not sure who) had signed, committing that the 100th car off the assembly line would go to him. So I stepped in and asked him point blank if I could take that to mean that the car was going to be produced. He gave out a loud laugh and said, "Oh hell, yeah!"
Part of my exchange with Perkins was caught by the GM First Drive camera!
http://gmtv.feedroom.com/iframeset.jsp?ord=708811
Best regardSS,
Elie
Part of my exchange with Perkins was caught by the GM First Drive camera!
http://gmtv.feedroom.com/iframeset.jsp?ord=708811
Best regardSS,
Elie
01-11-2006, 07:35 PM
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Re: Production Speculation Thread.....
It sure seems that it has long been a question of "when" and not "if". I certainly can't see anything of late to change that, thus I see little need to speculate on the possibility of production (meaning it almost a certainty, in my view).
01-11-2006, 07:57 PM
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Re: Production Speculation Thread.....
I bet the car hits the streets in 2008 as a 2009 model. They need it and they know it. Mustang, Charger and Challenger sales tell the tale. Add to that the incredibly positive reception on the web and in the press and GM can't afford to pass it up.
01-11-2006, 08:06 PM
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Re: Production Speculation Thread.....
Originally Posted by sselie
After the unveiling on Monday, I found myself standing next to Jim Perkins. He was holding court and showing off a card that someone (not sure who) had signed, committing that the 100th car off the assembly line would go to him. So I stepped in and asked him point blank if I could take that to mean that the car was going to be produced. He gave out a loud laugh and said, "Oh hell, yeah!"
Part of my exchange with Perkins was caught by the GM First Drive camera!
http://gmtv.feedroom.com/iframeset.jsp?ord=708811
Best regardSS,
Elie
Part of my exchange with Perkins was caught by the GM First Drive camera!
http://gmtv.feedroom.com/iframeset.jsp?ord=708811
Best regardSS,
Elie
when i saw that the first time, i thought it was you (the name Elie kinda sticks out
). very cool!
Originally Posted by Bob Cosby
It sure seems that it has long been a question of "when" and not "if". I certainly can't see anything of late to change that, thus I see little need to speculate on the possibility of production (meaning it almost a certainty, in my view).
01-11-2006, 08:14 PM
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Re: Production Speculation Thread.....
Ok two Questions then cross my mind…
#1 Where exactly is Camaro in the development phase?
We obviously know its much farther along than the Solstice concept was when shown.
&
#2 What hurdles are left to make production?
-Formal approval (looks like they may already have a very detailed business plan, so I’m thinking no problem)
-looks like the main design is done minus some details (interior, slight body changes)
-Crash testing? Mule testing, alpha, beta cars?
-Contracts out to sub-suppliers (if they aren’t already submitted)
-tooling up the factory (one may already be picked out)
I’ve got a gut feeling this car isn’t as far off as we may have thought.
I was thinking mid to late ’08 as an ’09 model….
But…but….could it be late ’07 as an ’08?
Is that even possible?
I would really like to see some of the hard core guys on here help figure out a time frame.
Can this car hit the streets in less than 24 months?
#1 Where exactly is Camaro in the development phase?
We obviously know its much farther along than the Solstice concept was when shown.
&
#2 What hurdles are left to make production?
-Formal approval (looks like they may already have a very detailed business plan, so I’m thinking no problem)
-looks like the main design is done minus some details (interior, slight body changes)
-Crash testing? Mule testing, alpha, beta cars?
-Contracts out to sub-suppliers (if they aren’t already submitted)
-tooling up the factory (one may already be picked out)
I’ve got a gut feeling this car isn’t as far off as we may have thought.
I was thinking mid to late ’08 as an ’09 model….
But…but….could it be late ’07 as an ’08?
Is that even possible?
I would really like to see some of the hard core guys on here help figure out a time frame.
Can this car hit the streets in less than 24 months?
01-11-2006, 08:27 PM
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Re: Production Speculation Thread.....
Just reading this thread made me feel all oopy goopy inside!
Does anyone know what the actual reality- not the want-it-to-be of car production could be?
Say BL gets a wild hair up the keister- how soon could it really happen with a mad (but quality controlled) push?
A moderate push?
Lets face it- the blow oval camp has to know at this point that they are about to start losing market share on their one hot seller- and have to be getting ready to retaliate- the more time GM gives em, the more time they have to get ready.
Does anyone know what the actual reality- not the want-it-to-be of car production could be?
Say BL gets a wild hair up the keister- how soon could it really happen with a mad (but quality controlled) push?
A moderate push?
Lets face it- the blow oval camp has to know at this point that they are about to start losing market share on their one hot seller- and have to be getting ready to retaliate- the more time GM gives em, the more time they have to get ready.
01-11-2006, 08:29 PM
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Re: Production Speculation Thread.....
Originally Posted by saroyan689
Just reading this thread made me feel all oopy goopy inside!
Does anyone know what the actual reality- not the want-it-to-be of car production could be?
Say BL gets a wild hair up the keister- how soon could it really happen with a mad (but quality controlled) push?
A moderate push?
Lets face it- the blow oval camp has to know at this point that they are about to start losing market share on their one hot seller- and have to be getting ready to retaliate- the more time GM gives em, the more time they have to get ready.
Does anyone know what the actual reality- not the want-it-to-be of car production could be?
Say BL gets a wild hair up the keister- how soon could it really happen with a mad (but quality controlled) push?
A moderate push?
Lets face it- the blow oval camp has to know at this point that they are about to start losing market share on their one hot seller- and have to be getting ready to retaliate- the more time GM gives em, the more time they have to get ready.
Originally Posted by stars1010
Can this car hit the streets in less than 24 months?
and how long is 18 months from right now??????????
Last edited by turbo96z28; 01-11-2006 at 08:31 PM.
01-11-2006, 08:36 PM
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Re: Production Speculation Thread.....
Originally Posted by stars1010
Ok two Questions then cross my mind…
#1 Where exactly is Camaro in the development phase?
We obviously know its much farther along than the Solstice concept was when shown.
#1 Where exactly is Camaro in the development phase?
We obviously know its much farther along than the Solstice concept was when shown.
#2 What hurdles are left to make production?
-Crash testing? Mule testing, alpha, beta cars?
-Contracts out to sub-suppliers (if they aren’t already submitted)
But…but….could it be late ’07 as an ’08?
Is that even possible? Can this car hit the streets in less than 24 months?
Is that even possible? Can this car hit the streets in less than 24 months?