Dan Baldwin

Pound for pound? Cold comfort for the Camaro SS owner to know that the Mustang GT owner got fewer POUNDS of car for his money, and that the GT is faster only by dint of being lighter-weight! Ditto for the ZL1 vs. GT500. "Yeah, your Ford is faster, but mine's fast considering how overweight it is!" doesn't seem a satisfying response to getting your *** handed to you. And neither does "but my ZL1 comes with tranny and diff coolers!"

But WAITAMINUTE! The Mustang GT is both quicker and cheaper than a Camaro SS, and the current GT500 is both quicker and cheaper than the ZL1. So how again is the Camaro "the best performance value out there...literally"?!

Awful cell-phone pics:




They had done a *very* good job over the years keeping Corvette and Camaro weights in line. ~3200-3300 for the Corvette, ~3400 or so for the Camaro pretty much since the late 60s to early '00s. I have to again use the word "unfortunate" for the choice to base the new Camaro on on a very large, very heavy sedan. Better that than no Camaro (I guess?), but it definitely sets a *very* bad precedent for Camaro weight. Now, a 3600 lb. Camaro will be lauded as a huge weight-savings, when in my view it would still be at least 200 lb. overweight!

I *don't* think the people at GM who make the big decisions appreciated the importance of weight *nearly* enough when they went the ginormously big and heavy route

For me, just being "lighter" than 3800-4100 lb. isn't going to *anything like* cut it.

GM should be taking a SERIOUS look at the FR-S/BRZ. Not saying that the next Camaro should be an American version of that car, but it should be a HELL of a lot closer to that than to a gigantic 4200 lb. sedan!

JasonD

Hahahahah...you do have a point there! However, do we know what the GT500 weight and cost is? I haven't heard myself.

I meant overall value...what you get for your money. I am going on my opinion. I used to be able to say "on paper" but Ford definitely has closed the gap quite a bit lately. Maybe I need to take another look at what Ford offers these days.

Looks like a fun car!

Corvette has a cost for that light weight. I am hoping that the cost of that technology and materials has been covered by sales and can somehow move over to a future Camaro. I don't quite know how that would work.

Yeah, I guess. I mean...it is doing very well, you have to admit.

Compared to what? Old architecture that cannot be produced anymore? The Ford Mustang...which (correct me if I am wrong) needs to be redesigned to meet regulations?

Maybe not...but I cannot stress enough...they have a microscope on it now...and in about one month from now, I will be in front of the entire Camaro team with a microscope on me. I'll bet that they will mention it before any of the Disciples do.

I don't know much about that car. What is it?

I myself don't have an issue with the Camaro weight but I know other people do. I have noticed that it comes down to three groups typically...

1. People who have a right to bitch because they actually use the car for some level of racing and would have to work like hell to make the car suit their needs.
2. People who know others have an issue with it, but have no reason to bitch because the weight doesn't impact their use of the car. So they shut up and enjoy it
3. People who just like to bitch and repeat what other people say (usually people from group 1) like a parrot, but adding their own non-facts into it to try to get people to think they know what they are talking about. They usually don't shut up about it and largely don't even own the car. They artificially use the weight excuse to not buy one (they either cannot afford one or wish they were in group 1) but they think they are race car drivers and if they don't wear Sparco racing shoes while driving to get toilet paper from Walgreens in their daily driver, they have contemplated the fictitious need for it.

I think you would be in group 1, and I am in group 2.

Dan Baldwin

A 2012 GT500 stickers for $49k, and is as quick or quicker than a 2012 $54k ZL1. I'm sure the 650hp 200mph 2013 will be more...

The Mustangs are thousands less than the Camaro, weigh 200 or so pounds less, and offer either the same (V6) or superior (V8, V8sc) power/weight vs. the Camaro. I've always been a Camaro guy since I was a kid (only owned one, though). But if I had to buy today, I'd buy the Mustang.

It's a riot!

A properly designed and developed 6th gen wouldn't need *any* advanced technology or materials to come in at 3400 lb. or less. It just needs to not be freaking enormous! Hopefully the new A-platform will bring the weight back down to a reasonable level. I still think they should aim for 3200 lb, but I don't expect it. What I expect/dread is ~3600 lb. and a bunch of talk about how "lightweight" that is.

I just don't care for the bigger/heavier direction. It really isn't a "pony car" any more. It's a muscle car.

It is possible to hold weight in check while meeting increasing regs. In fact, the '15 Mustang is *supposed* to be lighter-weight. And have IRS. I'm looking forward to it. And the 6th gen.

Cool! Let them know that at least one Camaro guy wants 3200 lb., will accept 3400 but not a pound more!

It's a 2700 lb. 200hp rwd/irs coupe that Toyota and Subaru developed together.
To anyone who thinks that size/weight HAVE to go up to meet regs, this car is the same size and weight as a 1989 240SX, and it's at the same relative price/performance points.

Progress is doing more with LESS. Just piling on extra mass and power is not my idea of moving forward...
The Mazda is going to be my track car for a while now. But for me, lighter-weight is what I want for my daily-driver as well. I *enjoy* driving smaller/lighter-weight cars, even at 3/10ths tooling around town or commuting to/from work. And I hate driving oversized overweight cars. They're just less FUN. Mass and size detract from driving enjoyment.

Here's to a 3200-3400 lb. next-gen! (it doesn't cost anything to hope!)

Bob Cosby

Will be interesting to hear what comes out of that....assuming you can talk...

As for the 2013 GT500...prices are not set yet. Job 1 is in April, so one would think pricing would be released rather soon....one would think. Neither it nor the ZL1 are my cup of tea though (personal preference).