5thGen

I think the best bet would be to use classes.....

If Chevy offers my 5.3L LS that can go up against the 4.6L GT Mustang and if DCX uses a Hemi, not the SRT 6.1L but another version of the 5.7L, and according to weight, it may even out. Maybe like the GT-300 of the Japan GP

Then they could use an GT-500 class... DCX has the 6.1L hemi, Chevy has the LS7, Ford has the Cobra GT500. DCX would be allowed additional work to be more competitive, if they don't already tweak the 6.1L up to 500 hp by then.

That American Iron Series would be Awesome, I was a little less impressed with the camaromustang challenge, it sounds like they even it out so the cars are nearly identical performance wise. I'd like to see the cars matter more, so that what chevy incorporates into this years models makes the mustangs get their butts handed to them, and forces Ford to make a change to improve next year, etc.... But not to the point of old Superbirds.... A voting body would need to approve changes. For example, if they want to add a huge wing, and therefore need to add it to the production vehicles as well, no way. If they want to increase the brake rotor diameter, and therefore add it to the production vehicles, then yes, becasue it will actualy benefit the every day driver as well.

I am sure now that I think about it, that there will be a series to my taste, but I think Chevy Ford and DCX, as well as Nissan, Infiniti, BMW, Jag and Mercedes should all compete as well, and advertise it as well.

bossco

Ehhh.. I would't care for a whole bunch of classes. I'd go for


1. Regular production car bodies only with factory windshield and factory aerodynamics
2. Factory suspension (with mods to factory parts for durability and tuning - however no big modifiations like offest arms, k-members, etc.)
3. 5 liter limit on engines using production blocks, heads, and oiling system. (no porting of cylinderheads nor major block modifications or machining procedures)
5. Factory brakes with only rotor and pad changes with a maxiumum wheel diameter of 17 inches.
6. mimumum production of 5,000 or more vehicles

5thGen

I think if it is advertised enough, it will be a hit. If the Camaro/Challenger come up to the plate and bring the goods, they will sell enough units that eveyone will know someone who owns one of them, if they see advertising, that shows the production car next to the race car, they will link them together.

I agree, the ovals will be needed. I personally don't like oval track racing, but if I can see showroom stock cars going 150-160 plus mph on an oval, I will be interested. I think they should incorporate city tracks as well. I would like to see a race on the streets of Chicago, streets of New York, Atlanta, etc....
But I know with a short race, that would be impossible. And with long races, the audience will lost. If they could get better camera work on City courses, it would be regained. One a week in each of the 50 states would be awesome, and give nearly every one a chance to see it.

One important aspect I would like to see is less paint schemes, less stickers. I would like to see numbers on the car. If a company wants to sponsor the car, put it in their commercial/ad. I think this is what helped along the transformation from showroom stock bodied cars to the jelly bean bodied nascar cars, the paintwork hid the true shape of the cars, making it more acceptable to change the shape, cause they already looked so different.

Then again I think Nascar is a joke. Not even the engines are production based any more, so what's the point of calling it a chevy/ford/dodge or even toyota now? How it has become the most watched sport in the US, I have no idea. I think they should be the ones to launch this series, and run it before their races, and televise highlights before they start the NASCAR races.

AdioSS

There is no way that this series could start before 2010. That gives Ford a couple years to catch up

The current Sean Hyland Motorsports Mod motor blocks allow displacements up to 6.0L. A little creative thinking should make higher displacement possible (sorta like how they are getting nearly 500cid from LSX blocks now.) Coupled with DOHC heads, that should be enough to compete with old technology pushrod motors that are larger Or at least, we'll just tell Ford that.

I've been hearing about a larger Hemi motor coming out (392cid?) which would help out the DCX camp. I have no idea what the bore spacing is on the new Hemi motors, so I have no idea what the max bore/displacement might be.

SharpShooter_SS

I was thinking this as well. It was an exciting series, I personally found this race more to my liking than the Indy series race that was part of the same card.

In case y'all forgot, the GM Players series was one of three race formats that the original 3rd gen 1LE/R7U cars were developed for. Still very desireable and rare cars.

bossco

5.4 blocks with big stroke and sleeved bores? I'll have to check that out Unless they are using the World Products Mod block?

The thing to consider also is that as you build power, then you have to build a chassis and aerodynamics to suit. As an example if you left cam and exhaust specs wide open and LS7 will produce 600+ HP more than enough to get a future F-bod up into the impractical levels of speed.

Thats why I say 5 liters with production blocks and heads. Any one of these guys could field a competitive motor producing 400+ horspeower and possibly even a 500 horsepower motor. Even better you could see some trickle down tech in a regular street car.

5thGen

with the large differences in displacement of stock vehicles, you have 6.0L 4.6L and 5.7L engines, producing from 300 to 400 hp.

If GM puts a 300 hp engine in it's line up, and DCX detunes it's 5.7L to 300 hp (from 340) you can base it off hp.
you will also have the 475 hp 5.4L GT500 from Ford, the 425 hp 6.1L from Dodge and 500 hp LS7 (maybe) from Chevy, these could all be tuned to 500 and make up GT500.

Otherwise you are squeezing out both GM and DCX with a 5L rule. They will not make a 5L production car to compete in a new series, or a existing series that is not televised.

I agree with the brake and suspension rules, however I would add in to allow changes to springs/shocks and ride height by changing out components, but not shock and spring conversion to coilovers, etc.

Wheel size might not be enforceable. If GM puts huge rotors on the front of the Camaro requiring 18s, Putting 17s on it would require smaller brakes, cutting into the brake rule (and hurting performance). I think common sense wise they would want to make them 17 inch for the balance between sidewall, and weight. But if the brakes are too big, it won't work. SO I think they should have to use stock size wheels AND tires. Not the actual stock wheels and tires, but sizes identical to the stock vehicle, so the real car influences what can be put on the race car. So you won't see 235s on the back of the Mustang GT and 355s on the back of the Race Mustang GT. I would also limit the number of entries, and try to have all the companies enter the same amount of cars. Maybe 3 entries per make, 4 entries if there are two classes, 2 in each class.


Also, as a deterent for cheating, I would have them install a restrictor plate on all the Fords if Ford is found cheating, for 15 weeks. This way, they know they will lose the races, and do not want to be seen losing for 15 weeks in a row, so they will not cheat.

5thGen

But how many showroom stock mustangs will have 6 liters?

I think the real draw will be fast racing based on real showroom stock cars. yeah 300 hp cars will be fast but not blistering fast, the 500 hp cars can be. Look at the Z06, that thing is horrendously fast.

bossco

Your right, none, they do have a 5.4 liter powered mustang coming out in 07 and at 300 hp yeah it could be 4.6 vs 6.2 vs 6.1 (well unless you count the torque deficiet that the 4.6 would have), thats why I say destroke to 5 liters. It'd be on equal ground in terms of size and potential power/torque with unported production heads doing very nicely. All three companies make a cylinderhead capable of supporting 300 to 400+ hp, We've seen it with GM and DCX in general print, and I've seen 5 liter 400+ hp mod motor build ups in dedicated publication using only the 2v heads and some porting. The Gt's 3v head is said to be on par or even better than the regular Cobra 4v castings, although I dont know about the Ford GT based heads that are going to be used on the Shelby, they are said to be superior to the R model cobra's 4v heads by Ford.

5thGen

then again we may see a 5.4L NA Mustang if they get scared enough about the Camaro.

bossco

Man I hope they do! I think the 5th gen is gonna be a mighty fine piece of machinery, but I'd much rather be a rival than part of the crowd and a 5.4 N/A mustang wouldn't be a bad start, especially if Ford has the cojones to make an all aluminum 5.4 using the 3v heads (they are 90% of the way there)

91Z28350

Mach1 vesus Camaro, that would be fun at the x-mas tree.

bossco

Hell yeah!

AdioSS

OK, GM and DCX have 400+hp naturally aspirated pushrod engines out already in a wide variety of production vehicles. I'm not including the LS7 in this. DCX's 425hp 6.1L uses a 4.060" bore. GM's 6.0L uses a 4.00" bore and the upcoming 403hp (truck motor rating, the car motor should be rated higher) 6.2L uses a 4.065" bore. Either can be destroked easily.

I'm saying that Ford needs to step up and make 400+hp without a blower. A DOHC 6.0L V8 should be able to do that. The SHM "6.0L" is actually 358cid with a 3.700" bore and a 4.165" stroke. Ford will complain about the much smaller bore size, but they are being allowed to run DOHC heads without pushrods. The GT Supercar's 4valve heads flow some serious air for such a small bore size (stock is 3.55".) Using the larger bore block should help enough to flow close to what the LS7 does, especially at lower valve lift. Their ultimate limitation will be piston speed. In order for a smaller engine to keep up with a larger engine is to turn it higher. But with the long stroke of the 5.4L, they may have problems.

AdioSS

oh yeah, for racing purposes with open exhausts, no emmissions to worry about, etc, you might as well bump the power numbers up 100-150hp unless the series runs "sealed" engines.