guionM

Seriously doubt it.

You're making the same mistake most people on this site tend to make: They think about the biggest engine, fastest Camaro and have bad amnesia about the rest of the Camaro lineup.

When did ponycars 1st bounce back?

During the energy crisis of 1973-1974. Gas was probally more expensive then when adjusted for inflation than as it is now.

Even the Javelin, Barracuda, and Challenger were recovering in sales their final year.

Another question.

When did the F-bodies set it's highest sales records??

Nope. It wasn't during the heyday of performance cars....

....it was during in 1979. Iran took over the US embassy & took US citizens hostage, fuel prices shot sky high yet again, OPEC was flexing it's pricing muscles big time, inflation was over 10% fed mostly by fuel price increases, Federal Prime Intrest Rates was pushing or at 10%.

Camaro sold a record 282,571 cars that year.

The Pontiac Trans Am (which hardly carried the reputation for great fuel economy) sold a staggering 117,108 cars.

On the flip side......

Fuel prices were (again, when adjusted for inflation) just about at the lowest levels in decades in the late 90s as was intrest rates, and the economy was at one of the highest levels in history.

That corresponded with the collaspse of Camaro's sales.

Moral of the story:

1. Don't try to tie fuel prices to Camaro's success or failure. History doesn't support it.

2. Camaro IS historically an economy car. Sure, it has a performance engine option, & it's a sports coupe, but it's historically still an economy car.

5thgen69camaro

Never been true, never will be. The first gen sold when gas was pennies and the car almost died under the gas shortages of the 70s. It wasnt until later that decade after the gas shortage that the EXACT same car broke production records held by the 69 in 78 and 79. This isnt a Vette, the bulk of sales will be in V6 and the entry V8. Most of those cars will be daily drivers... No matter how much people claim not to be worried about gas prices, when it comes to parting with their money on a daily driver magically its a factor...

5thgen69camaro

Define "bounce back." You mean the 73 sold more than the 72 which was saddled with the 117 day strike in Norwood? That made the effects of the repeal of the 7% Auto excise tax in 72 effect the 73 Of course the 73 showed improvement in sales, how could it not?

The 4th gen sucked in all aspects save the drive train, whats your point? The Mustang killed in in sales as we well know.

Though Im going to pay for posting without doing reasearch, Im curious as to what Mustang sales looked like comparitively to its history.

Of course it does

Think you might be reaching. majority of sales are entry level V6 that get better gas milege than a V8 but thats because they cant afford the V8, the gas or insurance. They would if they could. Conversly the mission statement and first priority of an economy car is to save gas.

DOOM Master

Very true. That you don't understand doesn't change that. And if you think that it almost died under the gas shortages, you REALLY need to look at the sales figures again. Camaro sold some of the highest numbers back during the gas shortage years. It might not have broken production RECORDS, but when it is still selling steady the hold time gas was short, tells me that it wasn't the gas that reason for the decline. We had some of the cheapest gas in the 90s, yet this is where the Camaro sales started to decline. So, explain to me again how gas prices are the major factor?

Maybe you should take a look at the people who are buying these cars, even the V6 and entry level V8. They aren't people looking for a gas miser. Those people are buying Aveos, Civics, and the Prius. The people buying Camaros and Mustangs are looking for a couple things, a sporty, good looking car that can get them around. Sure, they could have bought a cheaper, more practical car like a Malibu or a Civic, but those aren't sporty or cool. Even if V6 isn't very fast, it's still a step above the stupid little Civic you pull up next to a light.

And if you are buying the V8 (like I am) you REALLY don't care about gas mileage. I bought my 94 Z28 back when I was 18. I used it as a daily driver for more than 5 years. Did I care about gas mileage? No. Even when it started going up, it didn't really effect me. Was gas mileage ever on my list of things to consider when I bought it? No, I wanted a fast, fairly inexpensive car with a 6 speed manual and a V8 that I could drive every day. Now I'm 26, I have a really good job, and I will be buying a brand new V8 Camaro when it comes out. Do I care about mileage now? Nope, still don't.

And I know plenty of other people who own cars (and trucks for that matter) where this applies. Might be ancedotal, but these people represent the people who buy Mustangs (many currently have one) and Camaros.

5thgen69camaro

A major factor, not the major factor. Obviously everyone has their breaking point on gas price. Its just a question of where that is for each individual. The most obvious example was a major market shift when the Japs made in roads into the car market with cheap small fuel effiecent cars.

Do you have a house payment? I dont know of anyone with any finacial responsibility to REALLY not care. To exagerate if your fuzy math suggests if gas gets to $9 and you think its a good idea to have a daily driver that gets 9mpg, you just might be in the minority.

DOOM Master

Yes, I have a house payment. I also own a brand new 2007 Ford Focus Wagon (my work car) and will still be paying on it when I buy my new Camaro. I also own a truck and my 94 Camaro, both of which I own outright. I'm also single and have no kids. Kinda helps not to have a huge burden of children and wife chewing up all my extra money.

You math is the one that fuzzy, which is why your resorting to exagerating and outright ridiculous suggestions to try to prop up your rather sad argument. You still don't understand the concept, so let me try again. Anyone buying a V8 Camaro (especially the top model) doesn't care about gas mileage. If you can't afford to drive the thing, you aren't going to buy it (especially a brand new car). Even people buying a V6-entry V8 don't really care about gas mileage. If they did, they would buy a Prius, Aveo, Civic, Camry, or any other small, fuel efficient car.

I drive 3-4K every month for my job. That's why I bought the 07 Ford Focus Wagon. It was cheap, it's very fuel efficient (27 city/37 highway), I could get it in a manual trans, and it carries all the stuff I need for my job. I cared about fuel costs with this vehicle. Could I have bought a brand new Tahoe or similar vehicle? Sure could have. But that would mean more money out of my pocket in gas, tires, and other maintenance items. Not to mention how much more the Tahoe costs out the door.

And I don't drive the Focus except for long trips out of town (whether for work or not) and work. I also don't make $150K-$300K every year, for those wondering. I make a good living, don't get me wrong, but I'm not some very wealthy executive jetsetter. Gas would have to get to $6-$8 a gallon before it would really start to effect my driving and car purchasing plans.

5thgen69camaro

Alot of Bloviating, only to prove my point. Try reading posts next time.

DOOM Master

You should take your own advise. Try reading EVERYONE's posts, not just mine. You failed to miss the point that gas is no where near $6-$8, nor has it been in the past. If you can't bother to read or comprehend what is being said, I'm not going to waste my time beating a dead horse.

jg95z28

FWIW, my daily driver is a '02 Tahoe. I'm averaging 15mpg at best and gas here is north of $3.60/gal.


And I could care less.

The bottom line is that the top dog Camaro will be targetted towards me and others like me. Gas prices will have no effect on my buying decision.

guionM

No, I'm talking 1974. The year the US spent dealing with major fuel shortages and sky high gas prices.

1973 Camaro sold 96,751 of which only 3,614 were 6 cylinders.

1974 Camaro sold 151,008 (roughly a 54% increase). That year 22,210 were 6 cylinders (something like a [b]600% increase).

Doesn't take much more than room tempreature IQ to look at the energy crisis, look at the jump in Camaro's sales, especially of the 6 cylinders (I'm not including the base V8s) and figure out that Norwood, repeal of the excise tax, or success of the movie "The Godfather" or anything else that happened prior to the fuel crisis had little to do with Camaro's sales jump beyond fuel efficiency.



Give me a specific item you want to check and I'll give you a comparison. I have annual sales figures, average fuel price figures over the years, as well as inflation indexs.


Most far reaching and most wrong statement I've ever known you to ever post my friend. Look up the buyer demographics for Camaro V6 as well as Mustang V6s. If you can't find them, PR at Chevrolet and Ford will gladly send them to just about anyone who asks via e-mail.

V6 ponycar buyers as a group can easily afford a V8, and because the median age of Mustang and Camaro V6 buyers are over 30, they can easily afford insurence as well. They do tend to think the V6 has sufficient performance and is "fast enough".



Bottom line is that Mustang and Camaro [b]were NOT done in by the fuel crisis of the 1970s. They weren't even done in by emissions.

Mustang's sales started slipping in 1966, and slipped every year afterwards except 1973, when it jumped up about 7-8%. Camaro started tumbling after 1969 (down 50% in 1970, about 8% in '71, and by over 1/3 more in '72). Like the Mustang, it also saw an uptick the following year going from a dismal 72K to 96K, but again, it was the fuel crisis of 1974 that saved Camaro... sales jumped from 96K to 151K.

After gas prices started dipping in late 1974, gasoline prices started upwards again in 1977 fueled by inflation combined with OPEC. Camaro sales? Darned if they didn't start dramatically jumping again.

1977: 218,853 (from 1976's 182,000)
1978: 272,631
1979: 282,571 (highest ever).

If GM were to make a Camaro a car that can stand on it's own without relying on top V8 performance to prop it up (proven to be a failing proposition on the 4th gen), and have a V6 engine that produces performance that non-speed desensitized people will love with fuel economy better than it's competition from here and overseas, as history has shown, it will still sell even in recessions and in an age of high fuel prices.

Which is why combined with V6s with fuel efficiency to brag about for the far larger general public, wrapped in a "Gotta Have It" package that motivates people to buy in economic conditions where they normally won't is what makes the Camaro (and the pony car market in general) seem to defy logic, expectations, and seemingly gravity.

5thgen69camaro

How the Mustang would fit this statement

"Fuel prices were (again, when adjusted for inflation) just about at the lowest levels in decades in the late 90s as was intrest rates, and the economy was at one of the highest levels in history.

That corresponded with the collaspse of Camaro's sales."


Not far reaching at all. I just sold my 98 V6 which I would have gladly traded for the V8 if possible. Ive run into people in similar situations where it seems to me that people take what their willing to pay for the car and get the most performance out of the car they want. If that means settling for a V6 so be it. On the same token my 350 2 bbl 69 would have ran as nice as it looked with a 4 bbl. The only reason I didnt touch it was originality. If what you said were the case, why not another 4cyl Camaro? Personally I think it would and should be a flop. I dont know who GM is marketing the V6 to, but at least the 3800 put out some decent power. I hope they dont fall short this time. Yes economy is important but performance and looks are the mainstay.

KICKSFELLA

If my little HONDA ACCORD can hold up for at least another yr and a ahlf with all of the miles it has on it 342,000+ miles then I won't have to wait because I have just have to have this car. I've never been an AMERICAN car made guy, I've always loved the old school MUSCLE CARS from back in the day and foreign cars and this CAMARO would be my first AMERICAN MADE purchase.

Centerfield

CAMARO: THE HOTTEST CAR MONEY CAN'T BUY

"It's the 'good guy' car on the summer's new blockbuster movie, Transformers. It's the star attraction of Chevrolet's excellent ride-and-drive program, Rev It Up. It's a hot ticket item at the car shows. And car magazines love to review it (see LA Car's History in the Making). I am, of course, talking about the new Camaro.

With all this exposure, you'd think it was the number one selling sporty car in America. In reality, the car isn't even on sale yet. The new Camaro is the hottest car money can't buy.

At this rate, you'd think Chevy might be worried about overexposure. Fortunately for the carmaker, this doesn't seem to be a problem. The car will be a hot seller when it hits the market- and it should serve as a considerable image booster for the Bowtie brand.

Alas, it's still unobtainable. If you want one, you'll probably have to pay a premium when it finally comes out for model year 2009. In the meantime, however, you can get up close and personal with the new Camaro at your nearest Rev It Up event."

Back Seat Driving, June 30, 2007