How important is the Camaro to GM NA?
12-26-2005, 04:03 PM
#16
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Re: How important is the Camaro to GM NA?
Originally Posted by greg_nate
Moot question, or worth merit?
Personally, I think it is very important - not just in terms of sales, but in terms of demonstrating that GM can some up with a hit, and compete.
...in terms of relevancy. Does GM just play catchup, or can they be best in class.
...in terms of reputation history. Can the Camaro name plate, which is legendary, be properly resurrected? Can GM even do what it used to do best - or will they be a shell of their former self? Think of Mike Tyson in his early years, versus his final years - completely incapable of doing that which made him famous to begin with.
Personally, I think it is very important - not just in terms of sales, but in terms of demonstrating that GM can some up with a hit, and compete.
...in terms of relevancy. Does GM just play catchup, or can they be best in class.
...in terms of reputation history. Can the Camaro name plate, which is legendary, be properly resurrected? Can GM even do what it used to do best - or will they be a shell of their former self? Think of Mike Tyson in his early years, versus his final years - completely incapable of doing that which made him famous to begin with.
The 5th gen, on the other hand, is going to be a great all-round car, and very user friendly compared to the 4th. Someone at GM is finally serious about actually selling the car, so I suspect the 5th gen will sell at numbers Camaro hasn't seen since at least the 1980s. If that's the case, then the new Camaro will be a significant player in it's importance to GM and it's going to actually have a future.
Having an image car for a division is important, but Corvette already fills that role. HHR and SSR also do this. But GM needs a high volume image sport coupe. The 4th gen wasn't it. The 5th gen I strongly believe WILL be.
Originally Posted by orbitalshock2k
^^^ Who exactly has bought an HHR? I drive quite a bit and I've seen 1 so far. Hideous too IMO
Originally Posted by WhiteHawk
The SSR is the famous one that Wagoner told everybody at the auto show it was going to get built - before he told GMNA Engineering even! I think the Solstice production plans were announced at the auto show too, although maybe not specific dates.
-Geoff
-Geoff
What happened was that the decision to make SSR came before anyone figured out how to make the thing in mass production. The folding roof and the fenders were especially difficult from what I've been told.
12-26-2005, 05:46 PM
#17
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Re: How important is the Camaro to GM NA?
Originally Posted by WERM
I'll just say that if they can't get this car right, they might as well just hang it up and file for bankruptcy.
Of all GM cars, it seems to me that f-body owners are the most loyal and outspoken GM supporters, save for maybe the truck guys. I wonder what %age of Camaro/Firebird owners have another GM car.
Of all GM cars, it seems to me that f-body owners are the most loyal and outspoken GM supporters, save for maybe the truck guys. I wonder what %age of Camaro/Firebird owners have another GM car.
Vette owners are a vocal bunch too...just as much if not more so than F-Bod owners.
I'd really like to know those percentage numbers too. There was a past thread which talked about people jumping ship to Ford or DCX...I was very close to being one of those folk, and only because there was no sports coupe offered by GM - specifically Chevy. Last year, I took a look at a GTO - which is a big deal for this die-hard Chevy guy. They wanted WAAAY too much for it. GM lost the sale. I then even test drove a Mustang Cobra. I ended up going with the Vette, keeping true to my Chevy roots. But I came close.
How many people were like me, but went all the way and jumped ship to another brand?
With the exception of a rusty 240Z, I've owned only GM cars...3 Camaros, a Citation(greatest littly ugly car I've owned), a Geo, an old Buick Riviera, and a Corvette. I think there are a lot of us out here who still have brand loyalty - and even in my age range. I am only 38.
12-27-2005, 10:03 AM
#18
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Re: How important is the Camaro to GM NA?
Originally Posted by orbitalshock2k
^^^ Who exactly has bought an HHR? I drive quite a bit and I've seen 1 so far. Hideous too IMO
Originally Posted by Chuck!
33,000 HHRs have been sold in four months. GM has a little hit on their hands here.
12-27-2005, 10:46 AM
#19
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Re: How important is the Camaro to GM NA?
WERM,
During a seminar in Bowling Green, I believe Scott stated that something like 80% of Camaro owners own another Chevrolet, and nearly NINETY PERCENT own another GM product!! That's phenomenal (also correct, I assume). Chalk me up as one of the 80%
Scott did say the Camaro is much different than the Corvette in this respect, as many Corvette owners own Vettes and other products, both import and other domestics.
During a seminar in Bowling Green, I believe Scott stated that something like 80% of Camaro owners own another Chevrolet, and nearly NINETY PERCENT own another GM product!! That's phenomenal (also correct, I assume). Chalk me up as one of the 80%
Scott did say the Camaro is much different than the Corvette in this respect, as many Corvette owners own Vettes and other products, both import and other domestics.
12-27-2005, 11:20 AM
#20
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Re: How important is the Camaro to GM NA?
Originally Posted by Jason E
WERM,
During a seminar in Bowling Green, I believe Scott stated that something like 80% of Camaro owners own another Chevrolet, and nearly NINETY PERCENT own another GM product!! That's phenomenal (also correct, I assume). Chalk me up as one of the 80%
Scott did say the Camaro is much different than the Corvette in this respect, as many Corvette owners own Vettes and other products, both import and other domestics.
During a seminar in Bowling Green, I believe Scott stated that something like 80% of Camaro owners own another Chevrolet, and nearly NINETY PERCENT own another GM product!! That's phenomenal (also correct, I assume). Chalk me up as one of the 80%
Scott did say the Camaro is much different than the Corvette in this respect, as many Corvette owners own Vettes and other products, both import and other domestics.
personally i'll never buy anything again until the general falls on its face
12-27-2005, 05:17 PM
#21
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Re: How important is the Camaro to GM NA?
Just from the standpoint of what the Mustang does for Ford the Camaro should do the same. If Ford didn't have the Mustang and it's trucks they would be hurting very VERY badly!
12-27-2005, 05:35 PM
#22
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Re: How important is the Camaro to GM NA?
I think Camaro guys are more Chevy people then Vette guys. I have met alot of vette owners out here in Socal and most of them would never own a different Chevy.In fact I have met people out here who don't even know that a Vette is a Chevrolet
Some people out here look at the Vette as it own entity thats totally seperate from the rest of the Chevy line.
Some people out here look at the Vette as it own entity thats totally seperate from the rest of the Chevy line.
12-27-2005, 05:43 PM
#23
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Re: How important is the Camaro to GM NA?
Originally Posted by Shackleford
Thank God. HHR > Nasty *** PT Cruiser 
Brian Nesbit did the PT, was later brought over from Chrysler by Bob Lutz and did one for Chevrolet.
Originally Posted by greg_nate
...How many people were like me, but went all the way and jumped ship to another brand?
With the exception of a rusty 240Z, I've owned only GM cars...3 Camaros, a Citation(greatest littly ugly car I've owned), a Geo, an old Buick Riviera, and a Corvette. I think there are a lot of us out here who still have brand loyalty - and even in my age range. I am only 38.
With the exception of a rusty 240Z, I've owned only GM cars...3 Camaros, a Citation(greatest littly ugly car I've owned), a Geo, an old Buick Riviera, and a Corvette. I think there are a lot of us out here who still have brand loyalty - and even in my age range. I am only 38.
Owned (in order) starting in 1980:
'68 Camaro
'73 F100 390
'75 Malibu Classic
'78 Monza V6 (edebrock 4 barrel & manifold)
'83 Mustang I6
'77 Monza Spyder (with a transplanted 350 4 barrel)
'78 Monza Spyder V8
'87 Ford Ranger
'85 Ford Mustang special service
'89 Ford Thunderbird SC
'92 Mustang special service (2) as 2nd cars
'93 Mustang special service (3) 1 as main ride, 2 as 3rd cars
'89 Mustang GT as 2nd car
'93 Z28 as 2nd car
'97 Z28
'89 Thunderbird SC as 2nd car
'93 Thunderbird SC as 3rd car
'02 Camaro B4C
Not sure what I do with that theory.
Last edited by guionM; 12-27-2005 at 05:54 PM.
12-27-2005, 07:51 PM
#24
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Re: How important is the Camaro to GM NA?
a friend of mine is a die hard ford man and of course i wear a bow tie. he stated a fact. since like the late 80s the ford has always been behind, in terms of hp and performance. now that ford has made the mustand available with 300hp there is no camaro to match it up against. i am a first time camaro owner. 1994z with 18000mi. man i wish i had this when i graduated. well no i guess not. i think i appreciate it much more now. i also have a tahoe that i like. i have test drove the fords and dodges looking for a new crew cab and have to say that for the price i am not impressed with either the ford or dodge. i will be a as my friend says a ''little boys wear bow ties''.
i cannot wait to see the new product and what it offers as far as performance.
by the way i live in iowa only allowing me to really drive the z in the summer but just this weekend it was nice and dry so i had to get it out and take it for a cruise. i love it and my boys love it. i hope to be able to let them drive with their kids in it.
i cannot wait to see the new product and what it offers as far as performance.
by the way i live in iowa only allowing me to really drive the z in the summer but just this weekend it was nice and dry so i had to get it out and take it for a cruise. i love it and my boys love it. i hope to be able to let them drive with their kids in it.
12-27-2005, 08:19 PM
#25
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Re: How important is the Camaro to GM NA?
Originally Posted by guionM
Owned (in order) starting in 1980:
'68 Camaro
'73 F100 390
'75 Malibu Classic
'78 Monza V6 (edebrock 4 barrel & manifold)
'83 Mustang I6
'77 Monza Spyder (with a transplanted 350 4 barrel)
'78 Monza Spyder V8
'87 Ford Ranger
'85 Ford Mustang special service
'89 Ford Thunderbird SC
'92 Mustang special service (2) as 2nd cars
'93 Mustang special service (3) 1 as main ride, 2 as 3rd cars
'89 Mustang GT as 2nd car
'93 Z28 as 2nd car
'97 Z28
'89 Thunderbird SC as 2nd car
'93 Thunderbird SC as 3rd car
'02 Camaro B4C
Not sure what I do with that theory.
'68 Camaro
'73 F100 390
'75 Malibu Classic
'78 Monza V6 (edebrock 4 barrel & manifold)
'83 Mustang I6
'77 Monza Spyder (with a transplanted 350 4 barrel)
'78 Monza Spyder V8
'87 Ford Ranger
'85 Ford Mustang special service
'89 Ford Thunderbird SC
'92 Mustang special service (2) as 2nd cars
'93 Mustang special service (3) 1 as main ride, 2 as 3rd cars
'89 Mustang GT as 2nd car
'93 Z28 as 2nd car
'97 Z28
'89 Thunderbird SC as 2nd car
'93 Thunderbird SC as 3rd car
'02 Camaro B4C
Not sure what I do with that theory.
I am the kind of guy GM execs jerk off over...in two years I'll be in a dealership, signing papers on a new Chevy, the same day GM is signing bankruptcy court documents. I'll go down with the ship.
12-27-2005, 09:28 PM
#26
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Location: long island new york
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Re: How important is the Camaro to GM NA?
GM must get back into rwd cars and stop trying so hard to go after the toyota and honda crowd because it's just not working.
If people want a toyota or honda they are going to buy one.
Look what chrysler did, they reinvented the rwd sedan and alot of people want one.
I am certain that the next camaro will be a hit as long as the price is right and the styling is right.
Now lets see a rwd impala,chevelle to go along with the much beloved camaro and corvette.
If people want a toyota or honda they are going to buy one.
Look what chrysler did, they reinvented the rwd sedan and alot of people want one.
I am certain that the next camaro will be a hit as long as the price is right and the styling is right.
Now lets see a rwd impala,chevelle to go along with the much beloved camaro and corvette.
12-28-2005, 03:44 PM
#27
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Re: How important is the Camaro to GM NA?
Originally Posted by cgman69
GM must get back into rwd cars and stop trying so hard to go after the toyota and honda crowd because it's just not working.
If people want a toyota or honda they are going to buy one.
Look what chrysler did, they reinvented the rwd sedan and alot of people want one.
I am certain that the next camaro will be a hit as long as the price is right and the styling is right.
Now lets see a rwd impala,chevelle to go along with the much beloved camaro and corvette.
If people want a toyota or honda they are going to buy one.
Look what chrysler did, they reinvented the rwd sedan and alot of people want one.
I am certain that the next camaro will be a hit as long as the price is right and the styling is right.
Now lets see a rwd impala,chevelle to go along with the much beloved camaro and corvette.
Might stop looking at that damn Charger and plunk some loot down on an Impala if they build a FULL SIZE car with the kick in the pants to go with it! I just can't bring myself to
I would bet the odds of a new-and-improved Impala and even a Chevelle will shift based on the success of the 5th Gen. I'd venture a guess that the new F-bod is very important, even impacting the future of many other platforms.
Allen
12-28-2005, 04:08 PM
#28
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Location: Springfield,OH. U.S.A.
Posts: 2,947
Re: How important is the Camaro to GM NA?
Originally posted by cgman69:
GM must get back into rwd cars and stop trying so hard to go after the toyota and honda crowd because it's just not working.
GM must get back into rwd cars and stop trying so hard to go after the toyota and honda crowd because it's just not working.
The Camaro will "Anchor" as one of those RWD variants.
12-28-2005, 08:09 PM
#29
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Re: How important is the Camaro to GM NA?
Originally Posted by greg_nate
I am the kind of guy GM execs jerk off over...in two years I'll be in a dealership, signing papers on a new Chevy, the same day GM is signing bankruptcy court documents. I'll go down with the ship.
Man, lucky I didn't have food or drink in my mouth when I read that!! I hear ya ... I think I'm equally as warped too . It's no secret among my friends/family/co-workers that I'm a Chevy nut, (in particular, Camaro/Firebird and Corvette 
... hmmm, strange ) but yeah, I'll defend them to the "n"th degree! Thing is though, while I'm not blind to the fact that GM has some "quirks" or "issues" with some of their vehicles (I mean nuisance problems, like notoriously bad head gaskets in some of their engines, or bad fuel pumps, or power(less) window motors that crap out too often 
) I'm also not completely jaded into thinking that foreign cars have it all just "so damn perfect" 
... they DON'T! AND, it seems in the last few years, GM has been making efforts to turn around their slipping reputation. I am overwhelmingly impressed (is overwhelmingly a word??) with some of their engines, in particular the LSx series motors 
. Hell, I get twice the fuel economy out of my Z28 as my Dad's '73 Camaro (or my '81 Z28 for that matter) but it runs just as fast!
I don't believe the 5th-gen Camaro will "fix" all GM's problems, but I certainly hope it helps restore some "Faith" into Chevrolet once more.
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