GM: Help keep new Camaro price down, make Onstar an option
04-28-2007, 08:06 PM
#46
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 287
I have been in situations where ABS has helped a lot. I believe my post stated ABS was a good idea, so I don't know what you are trying to prove with your post.
A good racecar driver can outbrake an ABS system with a technique called Threshold Braking. Maybe that is where your confusion is? ABS isn't designed necessarily to reduce braking distances (although by default it often will), it is designed to be able to give the driver control under a panic stop. ABS should be on every passenger car sold.
A good racecar driver can outbrake an ABS system with a technique called Threshold Braking. Maybe that is where your confusion is? ABS isn't designed necessarily to reduce braking distances (although by default it often will), it is designed to be able to give the driver control under a panic stop. ABS should be on every passenger car sold.
Clyde
04-28-2007, 10:01 PM
#47
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 511
You guys are missing the point. It's all big-brother stuff. The Feds have got GPS being beamed to NSA as soon as you start your engine. All your money is direct deposit and all you've got to show for it is a bunch of old ATM receipts.
All new OBDII has black box recorders. Why do you think they do that? It's not for YOUR safety. Next thing you know, there'll be cockpit voice recorders...or maybe there already is...(hint: On-Star)
All new OBDII has black box recorders. Why do you think they do that? It's not for YOUR safety. Next thing you know, there'll be cockpit voice recorders...or maybe there already is...(hint: On-Star)
04-29-2007, 06:33 PM
#50
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 336
04-29-2007, 07:10 PM
#51
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Southern Indiana
Posts: 940
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04-30-2007, 07:57 AM
#53
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 388
You guys are missing the point. It's all big-brother stuff. The Feds have got GPS being beamed to NSA as soon as you start your engine. All your money is direct deposit and all you've got to show for it is a bunch of old ATM receipts.
All new OBDII has black box recorders. Why do you think they do that? It's not for YOUR safety. Next thing you know, there'll be cockpit voice recorders...or maybe there already is...(hint: On-Star)
All new OBDII has black box recorders. Why do you think they do that? It's not for YOUR safety. Next thing you know, there'll be cockpit voice recorders...or maybe there already is...(hint: On-Star)
04-30-2007, 04:50 PM
#54
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 511
It all starts with the carrot.... Discounts on Insurance if you Agree to the Terms and Conditions...
It was inevitable that insurance agencies would figure out how to tap into the data buzzing around a car's CAN bus and start collecting it to monitor driving. Progressive Insurance's new program certainly allows for collecting some valuable driver demographics. But there's also the Big Brotherish effect of having your insurance company as your backseat driver, monitoring every acceleration!
In Progressive's TripSense program, policy holders volunteer to have their driving electronically monitored in exchange for a usage-based discount. Participants get a free TripSensor, a "black box" device that plugs into the car's On-Board Diagnostic (OBDII) port. Participants also load TripSense software onto their PC, which communicates with the TripSensor when it's pulled from the OBDII port and plugged into the PC's USB port.
The TripSensor culls data from the OBDII to compile individual trip statistics: start and end time, miles driven, number of "aggressive braking and acceleration" events, and speeds taken at 10-second intervals to build records of time spent in various "speed bands."
Designed by Davis Instruments, the TripSensor is a customized version of Davis' CarChip, a "black box" data logger about the size of two 9-V batteries. (CarChip E/X has many other functions, like monitoring engine trouble codes and performance parameters. As a "black box," it also can generate an accident log showing speed and braking data for the last 20 seconds prior to a collision.)
Participants in the TripSense program initially receive a 5% discount for signing up. In subsequent policy periods, they receive the discount only if they choose to upload driving data to Progressive. Then they may get additional discounts of up to 20% based on how much, how fast, and when they drive. Drivers are rewarded for driving fewer miles, keeping speed below 75 mph, and staying off the roads at higher-risk times of day. The TripSensor must be installed 95% of the time to qualify for the discount.
....more at this link:
http://www.elecdesign.com/Articles/P...ArticleID=8663
and then you have this:
British motorists face spy in sky monitoring
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070501/...RYxg.PDc7MWM0F
With this little quote from the above Brit Article:
"..You have to juggle the cost, the charges and the penalties and offer some carrots as well as sticks," he said. Simply making manufacturers fit tracking systems to all new cars would not be sufficient to guarantee rapid coverage, he said.
Panel member and transport consultant Jack Opiola said the thorny issue of personal data privacy could easily be dealt with by appropriate laws.
Appropriate laws? Don't you just love the sound of that?
It was inevitable that insurance agencies would figure out how to tap into the data buzzing around a car's CAN bus and start collecting it to monitor driving. Progressive Insurance's new program certainly allows for collecting some valuable driver demographics. But there's also the Big Brotherish effect of having your insurance company as your backseat driver, monitoring every acceleration!
In Progressive's TripSense program, policy holders volunteer to have their driving electronically monitored in exchange for a usage-based discount. Participants get a free TripSensor, a "black box" device that plugs into the car's On-Board Diagnostic (OBDII) port. Participants also load TripSense software onto their PC, which communicates with the TripSensor when it's pulled from the OBDII port and plugged into the PC's USB port.
The TripSensor culls data from the OBDII to compile individual trip statistics: start and end time, miles driven, number of "aggressive braking and acceleration" events, and speeds taken at 10-second intervals to build records of time spent in various "speed bands."
Designed by Davis Instruments, the TripSensor is a customized version of Davis' CarChip, a "black box" data logger about the size of two 9-V batteries. (CarChip E/X has many other functions, like monitoring engine trouble codes and performance parameters. As a "black box," it also can generate an accident log showing speed and braking data for the last 20 seconds prior to a collision.)
Participants in the TripSense program initially receive a 5% discount for signing up. In subsequent policy periods, they receive the discount only if they choose to upload driving data to Progressive. Then they may get additional discounts of up to 20% based on how much, how fast, and when they drive. Drivers are rewarded for driving fewer miles, keeping speed below 75 mph, and staying off the roads at higher-risk times of day. The TripSensor must be installed 95% of the time to qualify for the discount.
....more at this link:
http://www.elecdesign.com/Articles/P...ArticleID=8663
and then you have this:
British motorists face spy in sky monitoring
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070501/...RYxg.PDc7MWM0F
With this little quote from the above Brit Article:
"..You have to juggle the cost, the charges and the penalties and offer some carrots as well as sticks," he said. Simply making manufacturers fit tracking systems to all new cars would not be sufficient to guarantee rapid coverage, he said.
Panel member and transport consultant Jack Opiola said the thorny issue of personal data privacy could easily be dealt with by appropriate laws.
Appropriate laws? Don't you just love the sound of that?
Last edited by Ultra_Dog; 05-01-2007 at 05:24 PM.
05-02-2007, 12:00 PM
#55
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SE MI
Posts: 976
The increased cost will raise the base price of the new Camaro over that of the Mustang, its number one competitor. At equal prices, the V6 09 Camaro should do well against the V6 Mustang. When you factor in a 10% increase (about $2000) of base price of the 09 V6 Camaro over the V6 Mustang, things wont look so rosey. Oh, by the way, April 07 Mustang sales were 21.2% below that of April 06 Mustang sales. Not sure how many selling days in each month, but a 21% decline in demand is HUGE in a traditionally good spring selling season. If the trend continues, look for increased incentives for the next couple years of Mustangs, as the design ages and the new Camaro comes to market.
05-02-2007, 12:16 PM
#56
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 1,897
I saw the sales drop as well. The selling days were 2 shorter over the previous year, nothing major. I don't think they'd sell 3K more mustangs in two days. They're down almost 17% for the year....
05-02-2007, 05:29 PM
#57
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SE MI
Posts: 976
Looks like everyone that wanted a Mustang finally got one. 05 model year had virtually no discounts followed by strong sales in 06. One year old GTs have been priced at only $2-3 grand less than a new one. Now Ford is throwing a $1000 incentive plus a free pony package on the 07 V6 cars. Ford will have 4 full model years of new Mustang sales (05-08) before it has to worry about Camaro competition. By 09, the current Mustang design will be wearing thin and will open the door for strong Camaro sales. And by then the American car buying public will probably be used to $4/gallon gas.
05-06-2007, 08:15 PM
#58
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Dallas
Posts: 31
At least PLEASE center the onstar antenna. Look at the Aura, and Malibu. Their OnStar antenna is on the roof, just behind the FRONT windshield, and shifted off WAYYYYY over to the side. *WHY?*. It looks horrible. Horrible!
I don't like OnStar because twice I have been autocrossing and had the OnStar operator come on in the middle of my run asking if I have had an accident. No, I'm not kidding.
Anyway, back to the point of this thread, yes, GM, make it an option. It is very expensive and will push the cars standard price up too much. I also hope they offer a package where you can order a Camaro as light weight as possible, IE a 1LE package.
I don't like OnStar because twice I have been autocrossing and had the OnStar operator come on in the middle of my run asking if I have had an accident. No, I'm not kidding.
Anyway, back to the point of this thread, yes, GM, make it an option. It is very expensive and will push the cars standard price up too much. I also hope they offer a package where you can order a Camaro as light weight as possible, IE a 1LE package.
05-07-2007, 04:07 AM
#59
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 3,698
Just wait till Progressive gets sued because some ******* get rearended by someone who did not want to slam on their brakes and have their insurance go up.
It all starts with the carrot.... Discounts on Insurance if you Agree to the Terms and Conditions...
It was inevitable that insurance agencies would figure out how to tap into the data buzzing around a car's CAN bus and start collecting it to monitor driving. Progressive Insurance's new program certainly allows for collecting some valuable driver demographics. But there's also the Big Brotherish effect of having your insurance company as your backseat driver, monitoring every acceleration!
In Progressive's TripSense program, policy holders volunteer to have their driving electronically monitored in exchange for a usage-based discount. Participants get a free TripSensor, a "black box" device that plugs into the car's On-Board Diagnostic (OBDII) port. Participants also load TripSense software onto their PC, which communicates with the TripSensor when it's pulled from the OBDII port and plugged into the PC's USB port.
The TripSensor culls data from the OBDII to compile individual trip statistics: start and end time, miles driven, number of "aggressive braking and acceleration" events, and speeds taken at 10-second intervals to build records of time spent in various "speed bands."
Designed by Davis Instruments, the TripSensor is a customized version of Davis' CarChip, a "black box" data logger about the size of two 9-V batteries. (CarChip E/X has many other functions, like monitoring engine trouble codes and performance parameters. As a "black box," it also can generate an accident log showing speed and braking data for the last 20 seconds prior to a collision.)
Participants in the TripSense program initially receive a 5% discount for signing up. In subsequent policy periods, they receive the discount only if they choose to upload driving data to Progressive. Then they may get additional discounts of up to 20% based on how much, how fast, and when they drive. Drivers are rewarded for driving fewer miles, keeping speed below 75 mph, and staying off the roads at higher-risk times of day. The TripSensor must be installed 95% of the time to qualify for the discount.
....more at this link:
http://www.elecdesign.com/Articles/P...ArticleID=8663
and then you have this:
British motorists face spy in sky monitoring
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070501/...RYxg.PDc7MWM0F
With this little quote from the above Brit Article:
"..You have to juggle the cost, the charges and the penalties and offer some carrots as well as sticks," he said. Simply making manufacturers fit tracking systems to all new cars would not be sufficient to guarantee rapid coverage, he said.
Panel member and transport consultant Jack Opiola said the thorny issue of personal data privacy could easily be dealt with by appropriate laws.
Appropriate laws? Don't you just love the sound of that?
It was inevitable that insurance agencies would figure out how to tap into the data buzzing around a car's CAN bus and start collecting it to monitor driving. Progressive Insurance's new program certainly allows for collecting some valuable driver demographics. But there's also the Big Brotherish effect of having your insurance company as your backseat driver, monitoring every acceleration!
In Progressive's TripSense program, policy holders volunteer to have their driving electronically monitored in exchange for a usage-based discount. Participants get a free TripSensor, a "black box" device that plugs into the car's On-Board Diagnostic (OBDII) port. Participants also load TripSense software onto their PC, which communicates with the TripSensor when it's pulled from the OBDII port and plugged into the PC's USB port.
The TripSensor culls data from the OBDII to compile individual trip statistics: start and end time, miles driven, number of "aggressive braking and acceleration" events, and speeds taken at 10-second intervals to build records of time spent in various "speed bands."
Designed by Davis Instruments, the TripSensor is a customized version of Davis' CarChip, a "black box" data logger about the size of two 9-V batteries. (CarChip E/X has many other functions, like monitoring engine trouble codes and performance parameters. As a "black box," it also can generate an accident log showing speed and braking data for the last 20 seconds prior to a collision.)
Participants in the TripSense program initially receive a 5% discount for signing up. In subsequent policy periods, they receive the discount only if they choose to upload driving data to Progressive. Then they may get additional discounts of up to 20% based on how much, how fast, and when they drive. Drivers are rewarded for driving fewer miles, keeping speed below 75 mph, and staying off the roads at higher-risk times of day. The TripSensor must be installed 95% of the time to qualify for the discount.
....more at this link:
http://www.elecdesign.com/Articles/P...ArticleID=8663
and then you have this:
British motorists face spy in sky monitoring
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070501/...RYxg.PDc7MWM0F
With this little quote from the above Brit Article:
"..You have to juggle the cost, the charges and the penalties and offer some carrots as well as sticks," he said. Simply making manufacturers fit tracking systems to all new cars would not be sufficient to guarantee rapid coverage, he said.
Panel member and transport consultant Jack Opiola said the thorny issue of personal data privacy could easily be dealt with by appropriate laws.
Appropriate laws? Don't you just love the sound of that?
05-08-2007, 10:05 AM
#60
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SE MI
Posts: 976
The first year of OnStar is not free. The one year subscription that starts on the vehicles in service date raises the base price of the car.
I cant remember where I read it, but someone on one of the car forums I visit stated that OnStar called him twice one afternoon while he was autocrossing his car to see if he was in a wreck or needed assistance. There has to be a way to kill the connection. Maybe tape a lead lined helmet over the antenna. :-)
Ford plans on refreshing the Mustang design and adding 50 horsepower to the GT for the 2009 model year, probably in response to new Camaro competition.
I cant remember where I read it, but someone on one of the car forums I visit stated that OnStar called him twice one afternoon while he was autocrossing his car to see if he was in a wreck or needed assistance. There has to be a way to kill the connection. Maybe tape a lead lined helmet over the antenna. :-)
Ford plans on refreshing the Mustang design and adding 50 horsepower to the GT for the 2009 model year, probably in response to new Camaro competition.