2010_5thgen

95firehawk

GT500 vs. GT lap times anyone? There were a couple of car rags over the summer that did this very test.

Sure you can do that...for Corvette money (and I'm not talking base 1LT money either.)

I disagree here. Although the initial cost may be greater the mod potential is just as great if not greater for an FI car than a N/A car. Once you start getting into heads, cams, aftermarket FI, etc. you quickly start to reach the price point of the FI car. And this doesn't include the upgraded brakes, suspension, and other goodies that the FI car will already come with. An inexpensive pulley and a tune will also negate any performance had by the N/A mods. Plus you still get to maintain stock manners and fuel economy. While I will agree that the larger displacement engine will make more power when money is no object, that scenario is very rare.

There also seems to be the misconception that an FI motor gets worse gas mileage than a similarly powered N/A car. Taking a look around the performance car segment seems to prove otherwise. Most manufacturers are going with smaller displacement FI cars.

I'm glad to see Scott post a response because he hit the nail on right on the head:

"Wouldn't the new Z28 follow its heritage if its the fastest Camaro on a roadcourse? "

This question was largely ignored by the most vocal of the smallest minority.

The truth is that the Camaro built was what the masses indeed wanted. Sales proved that. The Z28 will sell just as well (volume adjusted accordingly.) Just because they didn't build what you wanted doesn't mean they got it wrong. That's something you will have to come to terms with.

Z284ever

The Z/28's mission is to beat any Mustang around a road course, not simply beat other Camaros.

As for the rest, Camaro sales seem to be settling in the 50-60K range per year.

BlackMetal

it happens alot on this subject. See below vvvvvv

This is one of the most truthful things ever said in this thread or any thread like it. However, see above ^^^^ For me the Z28 will be what it will be and if it isn't that will be my problem. I hope they change a few things that I am not happy about but they are pretty much minor.

According to who???? I see you saying things liek this alot about what the Camaro should or should not be but alot of the time it turns out to be just an opinion being mentioned like it is fact. I thought you would have bought a mustang or vette by now anyway since you are always praise them. They are lighter and faster and more bang for the buck so why not go buy one? The Z28 won't be good enough for you...we all know it so enjoy that Stang. There are a few people here who have one so it won't be a big deal.

I heard that it was well over 100,000 sold for 2010. Or are you talking 2011 numbers which would just be a projection since the model year isn't over yet.

Bob Cosby

Hmmm....perhaps the Corvette can provide us with some evidence one way or the other?

The 2010 Z06 has a 7.0L N/A engine and gets an EPA rating of 15/24/18 mpg.

The 2010 ZR1 has a 6.2L S/C engine and gets an EPA rating of 14/20/16 mpg.

Gearing is the same. The weight difference is ~160 lbs, or ~2% in favor of the N/A Z06. The point though is that the S/C ZR1 has ~11% less displacement, yet gets ~11% worse combined gas mileage. I would suggest this does not support the arguement that smaller, blown engines get the same mpg as larger, n/a engines (can't really compare Ford's blown 5.4 to its new N/A 5.0, as the S/C engine is bigger than the N/A engine, and I don't know of any other platforms with comparable blown vs n/a engines).

On the upside of course, there is a ~25% increase in power from the blown 6.2 vs the au naturale' 7.0. Bigger gains with smaller investment are also in favor of the ZR1's powerplant.

To each their own I suppose. I'd take the Z06 over the ZR1 if it were my money, but that's not really the point if this thread, so nevermind, and please carry on with your argueme....errr....discussion.

Bob

Z284ever

How many references do you require? The one and only mission of the original Z/28, (ie., it's "heritage" as was stated), was to beat Mustang around a road course. Now, if you're saying that IN YOUR OPINION, that is no longer the Z/28's mission, that we shouldn't be hung up about being better than Mustang, that we should just accept that the Z/28 is nothing more than an also ran - then just simply state that.

Sure, I could buy a Mustang. In fact, lots of people keep telling me that the Boss Mustang is tailor made for me. And it's tempting. But as I mentioned to Scott in this thread, I'll keep a space open in my garage, just in case GM decides that they want to build a Z/28 for me. But in the end, someone will ultimately get my money. I'm just hoping it's GM.


Projected 2011 sales obviously. Based on Oct., Nov. and projected Dec. sales. Plus, let's not forget that those 100K units came with an extended MY year. We can probably say that the "pent up" demand has now been met, and the past few months sales numbers indicate the annualized number I stated.

Z28Wilson

I have no interest in getting involved in the whole Z28/weight pi$$ing match again, I've made my opinion known on that thousands of times. Just wanted to point out that in calendar year 2010 Camaro is poised to sell right around 80,000 units. That's without the benefit of a couple thousand "Z28s" and the convertible. Not too shabby.

I wouldn't use the last 3 months of the year to project next year's sales. I would guess that these are typically the slowest periods for sports car sales.

Z284ever

Point taken. Those sales numbers are down about 35% from the same months last year though.

Z28Wilson

The same months last year is just after initial launch. Stands to reason sales would be high.

Not trying to make excuses, you know the 5th Gen doesn't set my hair on fire, I'm just sayin'

Z284ever

I know, just explaining that annual Camaro sales are settling at about 50-60K.

Slappy3243

That is why I really don't care about either car. They are only going to be purchased as expensive weekend toys for rich people. It is not like the VAST majority of us are going to be able to go out and buy one anyway.




If I had the money for a factory track car, it would be the Laguna Seca version. You are right though, it will be pretty funny seeing track ready Boss Mustangs just rolling up and the down the strip and blurping the throttle once in a while .

teal98

It's outselling Mustang, in spite of the fact that the Mustang has the convertible and GT500 models in addition to the V6 and V8 coupes.

I've also seen some pretty heavy discounting on the 2011 Mustang (and Challenger and Genesis Coupe for that matter). I've not seen that on the Camaro. Maybe in other parts of the country....

It's not clear to me that small and light is what sells best to the masses in a two-door RWD coupe. Styling and image seem to be the most important characteristics. Otherwise, the gen4 with the LS1 would have sold a lot better.

Z284ever

Lately it's pretty close. Last month Camaro sold 70 units more than Mustang. In Oct. Mustang outsold Camaro by about 300. Pretty much neck and neck. We'll see how the numbers shake out by next spring, but Mustang numbers have been steadily increasing and Camaro numbers have been decreasing. If the trend continues, those curves will obviously cross.


Small and light and 4th gen - that's a WHOLE different thread.

Z284ever

I admit, I'd buy a car like that as a weekend/track day/cruise night toy. I wouldn't daily drive it or heaven forbid, drive it in the winter. Actually, most people I know who'd be interested in a car like that, would have it as their "special, fun car".

What the heck, as the kids get older and I need a 5 passenger sedan less and less, I'd consider buying another more pedestrian Camaro as a daily beater....

Maybe I should save two spots in my garage instead of one.

teal98

Money on the hood helps. Thanksgiving weekend, one of the local Ford dealers had $6000 off on every 2011 Mustang GT. I've not seen anything like that on the Camaro SS. In fact, I've seen very few ads for the Camaro in the local paper -- there are far more for the other three RWD coupes.

Whatever the case, I have to believe that GM is quite satisfied with sales of the Camaro -- likely more so than Hyundai and Ford are about the Genesis coupe and 2011 Mustang, respectively, though I'm sure both would say that their respective pony cars are doing fine.