diamondave

I own a new one, and I should have bought used....

diamondave

Im saying they should have made it with 350hp, rather then the 300 which I think is an exaturation (Owning one with a 300Hp V6 and one with a 300Hp LT1.... there is alot of LAG! in the Gen5... or its grossly over weight.)

JakeRobb

I don't understand what you're asking here.

JakeRobb

Peak horsepower alone doesn't tell the whole story. It's really unfortunate that the automotive media focuses on it -- a torque graph would be much more informative. Your 3.6L really makes 304hp, and your '93 LT1 Camaro or Firebird really makes 275hp. However, the LT1 makes a lot more torque across a much wider RPM range, and that's why it feels (and runs) faster. To some extent, it's also due to differences in gearing and the car's overall weight.

JakeRobb

Because it would have saved you a bunch of money due to low resale value?

Okay, fair enough, but how is that GM's fault, and what does it have to do at all with ideas that should be brought up at the next focus group meeting?

diamondave

1st question answer is yes... anyone would have liked to pay for what there car ends up being after they pull of the lot (-60%). And besides all the poor pre-buy buyers... sad to see people pay sticker. I didnt. I got only 3.4K off sticker. How?... demo with 5K on the clock... and I inspected it before I bought it. Now yes I would have bought it in a second if it were 15K (I believe thats BB value of my car..), but it took me a couple days to actually decide. Even at the Chrysler dealership when I bought my wife a SRT-8 Challenger, she doesnt like the New Camaro... go figure.... I almost bought a Dodge... But just couldnt get myself to do that.

2nd question answer is... Didnt GM push the Camaro out before the goverment bailed them out?... Im not to up on the politics of it all I must admit, but people online were stating this. Because they feared the gov. would scrap the program? In that process I think they were maybe rushed in the final product, if not why change things? shouldnt be anything wrong... so that is why I figure price is an issue that could be worked on. Anything else has to go thru other channels and the higher-up's.

ZZtop

1. GEARS. Please give us some factory optional rear gear packages. Something along the lines of 3.73 and 3.90 would be realistic factory rear gear options with this cars tires and tranny gearing. Very similar to the 3.55's and 3.73's offered on the Mustang and this will keep the Camaro from falling behind in the acceleration department.

2. UNDERSTEER. Fix it please. A slight sway bar change and perhaps some different shock tunning should do it without compromising ride quality.

3. ENJOY the cars success and keep working hard on the 6th Gen.

Z28Wilson

Ok, anyone who reads some of my posts knows I am not a fan of many aspects of the 5th Gen. But I'm still going to defend the car a little bit here...

#1 - Kelly Blue Book does not have a used price for 2010 Camaros (or most other used 2010's - they're too new). Ok, so I searched traderonline.com within 500 miles of my location for the lowest priced used 2010 Camaro. Know what popped up? An LT (V6) car with over 11,000 miles for $22,595. So I am not sure where you are getting this "60% depreciation" stuff from, unless cars are just radically different in your neck of the woods. I'd say if you managed to get $3400 off sticker on your car, you got a real nice deal.

#2 - Please name another coupe on the market with 300+ HP for $23,000. No, it may not be as fast as your LT1 car for the reasons mentioned by others (torque, and weight - weight being one of my big problems with the car). But it's still a car that will run pretty deep into the 14's, and that type of performance-per-dollar would have been hard to top for the LT1 brand-new (adjusted for inflation of course). Why doesn't the V6 have 350 HP, or 400, or 450 for that matter? Wave the magic wand? GM doesn't have a production V6 that makes that kind of power. If they were to design one specially for the Camaro, you would've paid a lot more.

#3 - GM did "push" the Camaro through development before the gov't bailout, but the car was approved for production in 2006 - a full two years before they were even thinking about the possibility of reaching out to the gov't for help. The Camaro is the way it is (heavy on Zeta) because they didn't have an alternative platform, and the drumbeat for the car as generated by the concept was too loud to ignore or postpone. Even still, the car may feel "rushed" to you, but it's a smash hit, so many probably wouldn't agree.

JasonD

A majority of the discussion in this thread that is not in the original spirit of it needs to be taking place in another thread entirely. Please re-read the first post if necessary.

Thanks.

sharpe

Two words: WHITE LEATHER.

1fastdog

You misunderstand what I meant by the "why you think your voice should be heard" comment.

Your opinion is just as valid as any other. The point I was trying to make was that it's always a good idea to let those that intend to listen have a bit of background and explanation of what it will take to make you or folks that see things as you do become happy buyers.

I'm not bringing drama. If that is your impression I take responsibility for any lack of clarity.

It seems you were voicing that because you were unfamiliar with the "deciples" and the concept that it was unvalid. That could be construed as bringing some distrust < which can be a component of "drama" > to the whole idea.

Questioning validity is a healthy trait. Not seeing any value in allowing others to carry your desires to a meeting is certainly a right I wouldn't deny anyone.

This thread's request is but one avenue of communication, not the only one.

I understand that pricing is an issue to you. I don't doubt that someone will bring price up at the meeting. Price is absolutely a motivating factor for buyers.

Chances are, that a vehicle which requires multiple shifts and overtime to meet demand, is actually well priced for the market. Resale is a strong point at this time for Camaro. I'm glad you bought your Camaro and it's unfortunate you feel you paid too much.

As for all members of this forum being viewed as equally important? Of couse they are.

I think you might agree that some opinions are going to be more valid in some instances when forming a business plan that raises value and decisions to purchase is being sought.

For instance, a potential customer who wants an all out race vehicle and doesn't care one iota about creature comforts or some negatives that can go along with such a product might not speak to the widest appeal. A person that never purchases new is important, but maybe there is a bit more focus in the new delivery intender.... plus a vehicle that makes no sense to a new buyer will have little chance to be built just so the used buyer can get what they want at a very low price. There's just too little business case there to rally folks under that flag.

I hope you don't mind my attempt to translate some of your post into something that can be voiced by the folks who will be talking at this get together:

"Offer whatever it takes to achieve better acceleration in the 6 cylinder model as I bought one and it doesn't meet my expectation of what a 300hp sporty car should deliver in the 21st century. I'm a Camaro fan who wants to remain one."

It's just an idea...

Thanks for being a Camaro fan. I do appreciate it.

WB2GENZ28

Hopefully the Desciples have their sights set on the release of a Z28 for 2011. I would like the Z28 to reflect the racing herritage and be performance based. I would happily cut out the frills (weight) for a LS-7 or LSA, vertical spoiler, and a sharper exhaust note. The Z28 should better the competition's best. I love the new Camaro and look forward to its evolution and refinement.

5thgen69camaro

I like the original Blue Bowties.

I liked the way one of the vendors curved the blinkers around the headlights rather than straight up and down like stock. Cant remember who did the car but it was the only thing they did that I liked.

Drop the belt line an inch or two
bring in the width.
Move closer to M3 dimensions.

Fix the understeer,

I think the ratio of how tall the tires are to how wide.
Id much perfer wide tires to just tall. For the look if nothing else. I like the standard rim design but not the proportions at all.

Also please put a lip on the rims. Jason is right about them looking better and his car shows it. Flush like they are make them look even thinner than they are.

Interior.

I like the door design but if I get into a performance car I want the handles on the door to be something I can grip. Especially if its someone elses car and they are trying to "impress me". And if its my car same goes for my passengers. Currently the handle horizontal is only good for getthing in and out rather than what I perfer of something to grab during spirited driving.

What is the status on HUD?

Engine -

Not alot I dont like about what I know of the LS3
would be neat if the V8 were direct injection and maybe with a more agressive cam maybe for the Z28. keep inmind I probably cant afford Z28 but there was an aftermarket stunning cross ram intake that to me just screams Z28


Oh Lemans Blue

Thats all I can think of.

bossco

Should the Mustang GT be a benchmark?

I mean I'm just saying while I'm a dyed in the wool Mustang guy, and to be blunt - its hard to soar with eagles when your flying with turkeys (well not really, but you get the picture).

IMO, I'd take a real hard long look at the best of the best in the industry myself.

JakeRobb

Fair enough, but Mustang is what a lot of potential buyers are going to compare it with, so it at the very least needs to compare favorably with that.

If it steers better than an M3/Ferrari/Porsche/insert awesome car here, I'll be all smiles, but I really don't think that's going to matter as much. Once it surpasses Mustang GT+TP's steering, I think we'll be near the point of diminishing returns.