Camaro Disciples Meeting Again in Detroit in 2010! PROVIDE YOUR INPUT!
07-23-2010, 03:46 PM
#196
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Toronto,Canada
Posts: 214
ON STAR.
One cool thing in a car. Does GM really want to compete and sell cars??
Make ON STAR FREE. ON star is just too damn expensive. I would venture to say most people dont renew.
I loved it for the first year and yes do miss it a bit but I dont know why the General does not put it in every car...bake in the price of the unit in the cars price and offer the service for nothing or next to nothing. 40 dollars canadian + taxes (13% tax in this fine country...wonder how our fancy health care system is paid for?) is almost 50 bucks a month for a pleasure car. 600/yr for Onstar for a leisure car is too much.
If they cant afford it why not have it available for less money for sure and on a monthly plan or quaterly or temporary for a guy taking a long trip that wants the security.
I just think On Star is so cool but really losing out on it's potetial.
I know it's expensive but maybe work with the dealers and come up with a solution that works so millions can enjoy it....
right now for 600 bucks a year or 3K for 5 years it is a real loser.
ON STAR needs fixing and improving and a DRAMATIC price reduction.
One cool thing in a car. Does GM really want to compete and sell cars??
Make ON STAR FREE. ON star is just too damn expensive. I would venture to say most people dont renew.
I loved it for the first year and yes do miss it a bit but I dont know why the General does not put it in every car...bake in the price of the unit in the cars price and offer the service for nothing or next to nothing. 40 dollars canadian + taxes (13% tax in this fine country...wonder how our fancy health care system is paid for?) is almost 50 bucks a month for a pleasure car. 600/yr for Onstar for a leisure car is too much.
If they cant afford it why not have it available for less money for sure and on a monthly plan or quaterly or temporary for a guy taking a long trip that wants the security.
I just think On Star is so cool but really losing out on it's potetial.
I know it's expensive but maybe work with the dealers and come up with a solution that works so millions can enjoy it....
right now for 600 bucks a year or 3K for 5 years it is a real loser.
ON STAR needs fixing and improving and a DRAMATIC price reduction.
07-24-2010, 04:23 PM
#197
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: FLORIDA
Posts: 222
6th Gen. Camaro check list:
Basic specs
5.5 V8 from C7 Corvette
Supercharged 5.5 V8 for Z28.
6 speed manual/auto with a refined paddle shift system.
Weight-3400-3500lbs
Wheels- Smaller! 18 inch with 19 inch Max. Smaller diameter wheels with a wide tire handle better, are cheaper to get tires for and look better.
Width-Just slightly narrower in proportion with a shorter overall length.
Shorter overhangs front and rear.
Car itself should be smaller. I love the looks of the 5th Gen. however it's too large a car for what it is. Some people will probably disagree with me but others in the performance industry will tell you the same.
Smaller overall size means better handling, lower center of gravity and more fun to drive. I.E. Corvette...I know completely different car
Design-
Revolutionary. Love the current 5th Gen. looks great now and they'll look good a long time from today, but the 6th gen. needs to be modern with a new direction.
-Chopped roof look is great to look at, terrible to drive in.
-Need's larger windows with smaller A and drastically smaller C pillars.
-Keep the wheels pushed out, looks very nice.
Interior-
Navigation/Screen should be in the design of the dash from the beginning with an option for no navigation versus the opposite.
Smaller steering wheel with slightly smaller thickness
Shifter **** downsized just a bit
Passenger side seat height adjustment
More usefull battery voltage, oil temp, cooling temp guages built into the main tach/speedo area.
Better material choice for the plastics, the dash with the small bumps currently isn't terrible though it isn't good.
Rear seat leg/head area-
It's a 2 door muscle car what do you expect. If GM can squeeze a few more inches here and their great, if not it's fine.
I have a feeling GM will pull out all the stops to make the 6th Gen. Camaro even better then the 5th Gen. in every way.
08-15-2010, 07:12 PM
#198
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Join Date: Dec 1997
Location: Nashville, TN area
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Just a few days left!
If you haven't ever listened to a CamaroZ28.Com Podcast before, you definitely want to tune into CamaroZ28.Com Podcast #258. I really explained why it is so important that all Camaro enthusiasts provide their input!
If you haven't ever listened to a CamaroZ28.Com Podcast before, you definitely want to tune into CamaroZ28.Com Podcast #258. I really explained why it is so important that all Camaro enthusiasts provide their input!
08-15-2010, 10:06 PM
#199
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Okemos, MI
Posts: 9,479
I'm sure I've already posted in this thread, but I'd just like to reiterate my thoughts:
On the topic of a 5th gen Z28:
Screw the supercharger. A mass-produced version of the LS7 (keep the titanium parts though!), a focus on reduced weight, and a Nurburgring-tuned suspension/steering/chassis/brake setup. If it can't beat a CTS-V sedan in EVERY measure of performance, including overall lap times, it's a failure. Price target: 48k. Carbon brakes should be optional for more money.
If they insist on a supercharged Camaro:
Use the LS9, not the LSA. Call it ZL1, and price it at ~65k. Limited production. Include all of the other stuff I mentioned above, and revise the interior to better suit the price tag. Do this in addition to the LS7 Z28.
On the topic of a 6th gen:
Focus on leapfrogging the 2011 Mustang GT, while paying attention to the main points of criticism -- namely, the weight, the visibility, the interior, and the chassis tuning. On the topic of leapfrogging, don't land 2mm past where the GT is now, or the next year's GT will embarrass you.
On the topic of a 5th gen Z28:
Screw the supercharger. A mass-produced version of the LS7 (keep the titanium parts though!), a focus on reduced weight, and a Nurburgring-tuned suspension/steering/chassis/brake setup. If it can't beat a CTS-V sedan in EVERY measure of performance, including overall lap times, it's a failure. Price target: 48k. Carbon brakes should be optional for more money.
If they insist on a supercharged Camaro:
Use the LS9, not the LSA. Call it ZL1, and price it at ~65k. Limited production. Include all of the other stuff I mentioned above, and revise the interior to better suit the price tag. Do this in addition to the LS7 Z28.
On the topic of a 6th gen:
Focus on leapfrogging the 2011 Mustang GT, while paying attention to the main points of criticism -- namely, the weight, the visibility, the interior, and the chassis tuning. On the topic of leapfrogging, don't land 2mm past where the GT is now, or the next year's GT will embarrass you.
08-16-2010, 09:09 AM
#201
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Toronto,Canada
Posts: 214
dont screw with the styling too much....you will have hundreds of thousands of upset owners....
visibility is only an issue to those who dont own one....ever try a G37? that was a nice slight change in styling without a complete screw up of the car (G35 to G37)...dramatic changes are risky since the last dramatic change was such a success....next one may not be. Evolutionary changes with positive interior improvements and positive chassis lightening improvements are in order. Keep style of steering wheel with deep dish but a touch smaller....give it a power passenger seat as mentioned many times...keep the big wheels, keep the chopped look(please dont listen to the styling weenies), keep the sensational IRS and screwed tight platform, give the exhaust a touch more bark and if you go to a smaller V8 make sure the hp and torque and fuel economy are competitive with next gen everything...I would like to see a bit more focus on sport rather than comfort ...make the seat more agressive and tighten up all the calibrations one notch....I like the look of the flasher in the mirror and side marker integrated in a lot of cars and please please please give us real FOG lights that can be operated with Low beam hell...I have them on my 2007 Chevy Silverado 4x4 so why not on my Camaro SS ????....and not just running lights that look like fog lights....They are handy in rainy and big storm conditions....also I think more attention needs to be given to the drive train....the transmission is still a bit clunky and notchy...its much better than 4th gen but needs some refinement. One touch close on the sunroof seems like an obvious change ..If the size of the car physically changes DONT make it much smaller....we dont need another Genesis ....The power and stance of the car are its biggest appeal on the street and by minitiarizing the car too much it will lose its muscle appeal.
More attentio needs to be paid to the paint on these cars...It's nice but if you look at some of the imports that we are competing with its got a ways to go. Some orange peel remains and the quality needs to jump to the next level if the Next Gen Camaro is to compete worldwide. Adjustable headrests seem like a no brainer as well....adjustable in the way that the whole headrest tilts and feels like its adjustable to your actual neck. (check out the headrest on a 92-96 Camry)....I have many other comments but other people might want to chime in....cheers.
visibility is only an issue to those who dont own one....ever try a G37? that was a nice slight change in styling without a complete screw up of the car (G35 to G37)...dramatic changes are risky since the last dramatic change was such a success....next one may not be. Evolutionary changes with positive interior improvements and positive chassis lightening improvements are in order. Keep style of steering wheel with deep dish but a touch smaller....give it a power passenger seat as mentioned many times...keep the big wheels, keep the chopped look(please dont listen to the styling weenies), keep the sensational IRS and screwed tight platform, give the exhaust a touch more bark and if you go to a smaller V8 make sure the hp and torque and fuel economy are competitive with next gen everything...I would like to see a bit more focus on sport rather than comfort ...make the seat more agressive and tighten up all the calibrations one notch....I like the look of the flasher in the mirror and side marker integrated in a lot of cars and please please please give us real FOG lights that can be operated with Low beam hell...I have them on my 2007 Chevy Silverado 4x4 so why not on my Camaro SS ????....and not just running lights that look like fog lights....They are handy in rainy and big storm conditions....also I think more attention needs to be given to the drive train....the transmission is still a bit clunky and notchy...its much better than 4th gen but needs some refinement. One touch close on the sunroof seems like an obvious change ..If the size of the car physically changes DONT make it much smaller....we dont need another Genesis ....The power and stance of the car are its biggest appeal on the street and by minitiarizing the car too much it will lose its muscle appeal.
More attentio needs to be paid to the paint on these cars...It's nice but if you look at some of the imports that we are competing with its got a ways to go. Some orange peel remains and the quality needs to jump to the next level if the Next Gen Camaro is to compete worldwide. Adjustable headrests seem like a no brainer as well....adjustable in the way that the whole headrest tilts and feels like its adjustable to your actual neck. (check out the headrest on a 92-96 Camry)....I have many other comments but other people might want to chime in....cheers.
08-16-2010, 03:30 PM
#202
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Phoenix AZ
Posts: 157
Interior attention (dash), NAV, and the ability to "upgrade" with more performance/body parts are at the top of my wish list. Ford has these areas covered and I know GM can rain surpreme if they try.
For giggles, bring back the Ttop
For giggles, bring back the Ttop
08-16-2010, 10:58 PM
#204
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: McAllen, Texas
Posts: 4
one more thing...the original Z28 wasn't the fastest or the model w/the most horses.
It was built for the trans am series....road racing.
Instead of adding a bunch of creature comforts to the Z28... I think Chevy should strip it down and take it back to it's original heritage...a lighter, street legal, road huggin non-AC'd, manual trannied pocket rocket!
My two cents worth anyways gents!
It was built for the trans am series....road racing.
Instead of adding a bunch of creature comforts to the Z28... I think Chevy should strip it down and take it back to it's original heritage...a lighter, street legal, road huggin non-AC'd, manual trannied pocket rocket!
My two cents worth anyways gents!
08-17-2010, 10:49 AM
#205
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Oakland, California
Posts: 9,710
Although GM said otherwise, the factory '67 MO 302 that was in the "original" Z/28, put out as much horsepower if not more than the SS-396 (except for maybe the L78). And in 1968 the NHRA National champion in class was a Z/28, not an SS-396.
08-17-2010, 11:00 AM
#206
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Join Date: Dec 1997
Location: Nashville, TN area
Posts: 11,157
08-18-2010, 02:31 PM
#207
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Middle of Kansas
Posts: 2,688
This sums it up. I would want AC though, but that only...
08-18-2010, 05:36 PM
#209
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Annapolis MD
Posts: 2,802
one more thing...the original Z28 wasn't the fastest or the model w/the most horses.
It was built for the trans am series....road racing.
Instead of adding a bunch of creature comforts to the Z28... I think Chevy should strip it down and take it back to it's original heritage...a lighter, street legal, road huggin non-AC'd, manual trannied pocket rocket!
My two cents worth anyways gents!
It was built for the trans am series....road racing.
Instead of adding a bunch of creature comforts to the Z28... I think Chevy should strip it down and take it back to it's original heritage...a lighter, street legal, road huggin non-AC'd, manual trannied pocket rocket!
My two cents worth anyways gents!
I could be wrong but I didnt take it that way. If you were making a Top Dog Argument I agree with everyone else.
I dont understand the Top Dog arguement mentality at least in SS vs Z28 which I think have slightly different mission statements. Other than price point that is and I think to have this mindset alone is really shooting yourself in the foot and shorting both brands. Case in point. Chevrolet until recently said
"You always want to have the Vette have a little more horsepower"
What for? Do you really want to short the heavier Camaro against its rivals so Vette people dont feel bad? The Corvette is lighter, two seats shorter, more of a sports car. Ever sat in the back of a Vette? I did as a kid in my buddies C4 sitting up high hunched over.
I suspect though you may have been arguing for a stripper street racer car, Where horsepower is nice but the focus should be handling, and weight by far to the point of being a stripper street racing car. I dont agree with you quite that far as I think if the Corvette were a Camaro the Z06 would be true modern interpretation of a Z28.
If thats what you meant, agree or disagree I think you have a valid specific opinion and I think you may be talking about something that would compete directly with the upcomming Mustang Boss.
Did you mean a competitor to the upcomming 2012 BOSS with a primary focus on a road handling street racer stripper car or were you making a Top dog arguement?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfVXB...layer_embedded
http://media.ford.com/article_displa...ticle_id=33064
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/08/07/f...n-august-13th/
https://www.camaroz28.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=767024
https://www.camaroz28.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=768024
Here we go back AGAIN to that age old argument of which is the REAL "top dog" Camaro.
Although GM said otherwise, the factory '67 MO 302 that was in the "original" Z/28, put out as much horsepower if not more than the SS-396 (except for maybe the L78). And in 1968 the NHRA National champion in class was a Z/28, not an SS-396.
Although GM said otherwise, the factory '67 MO 302 that was in the "original" Z/28, put out as much horsepower if not more than the SS-396 (except for maybe the L78). And in 1968 the NHRA National champion in class was a Z/28, not an SS-396.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfVXB...layer_embedded
Last edited by 5thgen69camaro; 08-18-2010 at 05:42 PM.
08-18-2010, 06:04 PM
#210
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Annapolis MD
Posts: 2,802
Z28 to me and these are NOT Top Dog Arguements. Change the Monikers I used if you must but leave the vehicle ideas in tact to understand my opinion.
Z28 should have
Ducktail spoiler
M3 size
Benchmark Boss/M3 handling
Lightweight Focus without going as far as loosing the Radio, AC, power windows like my Managers Lotus. His car looks cool but would get old after a day.
I can hear it now. M3 is a rediculously high pricepoint luxury car and this is an unfair comparison or benchmark. If you want an M3, spend a ton of money and get one, this is a muscle car.
I dont care about the Luxury part of the M3.
I dont care about the expensive sometimes unreliable parts.
I dont care about the BMW namesake that drives the price through the roof
I dont care about the expensive materials in the BMW interior for a Benchmark.
All Im talking about is Benchmarking M3 handling and size. Worst case senario is you get close for about 1/2 the price.
While I think the Z28 should be the Street Race Car Camaro with the Kick A$$ engine, I think the suspension and other Z28 road handling performance parts should be a special SS (Possible badged SS 1LE ala Corvette Grand Sport) placed between the SS and Z28 offering close to Z28 handling but with SS engine for people who cant afford a Z28 the same way a Grand Sport offers Z06 handling with Base Vette power. Excellent deal.
Z28 should have
Ducktail spoiler
M3 size
Benchmark Boss/M3 handling
Lightweight Focus without going as far as loosing the Radio, AC, power windows like my Managers Lotus. His car looks cool but would get old after a day.
I can hear it now. M3 is a rediculously high pricepoint luxury car and this is an unfair comparison or benchmark. If you want an M3, spend a ton of money and get one, this is a muscle car.
I dont care about the Luxury part of the M3.
I dont care about the expensive sometimes unreliable parts.
I dont care about the BMW namesake that drives the price through the roof
I dont care about the expensive materials in the BMW interior for a Benchmark.
All Im talking about is Benchmarking M3 handling and size. Worst case senario is you get close for about 1/2 the price.
While I think the Z28 should be the Street Race Car Camaro with the Kick A$$ engine, I think the suspension and other Z28 road handling performance parts should be a special SS (Possible badged SS 1LE ala Corvette Grand Sport) placed between the SS and Z28 offering close to Z28 handling but with SS engine for people who cant afford a Z28 the same way a Grand Sport offers Z06 handling with Base Vette power. Excellent deal.