1fastdog

I can only offer that the greatest management of capitalism results in a monopoly. That is certainly the air-tight assurance of survival and return for the investor.

Wisely we have instituted some discouragement of that "paradigm". Let's at least consider that capitalism best benefits when it benefits more than it damages. You will find no greater proponent of captialism than me. There is nothing bad with getting a return for risk.

When you get into a world economy things may get a bit skewed. A paltry dollar in one frame of context is a month's wages in another.

I again point out, what makes dependance on foreign oil so intolerable and thus counter to all we hold dear, as opposed to dependance on foreign labor being so readily viewed as the natural order of things?

I just don't accept that the American ideal is foundationally based on clay feet.

nova

Hell, at the loan amounts they're talking about, the gov't could just buy GM and Ford at market value and be done with it.

At current stock prices, it would only cost something like $6 billion to buy them. If we're going to dump tax dollars down the rabbit hole, then we may as well do it directly instead of through loans. If we're gonna be subisidizing people's jobs, just go ahead and buy the companies and add them to the federal payroll. Our gov't can mismanage and lose money building cars just like they mismanage and lose money carrying letters and running trains....

Because honestly, between the 2 companies, they have ~$200 billion in debt, if $200 billion in debt couldn't get them right, WTF exactly is another $25 billion ,$100 billion or even trillion gonna do except prolong the agony. Its kinda like giving a drunk a drink at this point...

trm0002

You hit the nail right on the head and drove it home. Consider one thing though- just my opinion- you can't have the government owning businesses. First off, they themselves don't run like one, so the business model is poor at best. Secondly, imagine the government running it and deciding how much of our tax money at any given time is going to be thrown at it to keep it afloat. There are no checks and balances to stop the government from writing a blank check once they are in control of it. That's a recipe for disaster IMO.

nova

I didn't make it quite clear so don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing for a gov't takeover of GM/Ford/Chrysler, quite the opposite actually. I don't like the idea of any interference whatsoever. Interfering is going to do nothing but maintain the status quo which isn't working too great for anybody involved...

At this point, loans are not going to fix GM, Ford and Chrysler. If anything is going to fix them, its going to be Ch 11...

MatthewRox

When it comes to large corporations like GM etc........ Capitalism is still the main focus...... for the high ranking Executives that is. They benefit and bank roll a high paying salary and jump ship when it sinks. Share holders in turn foot the bill as of recent.

History has shown time and time again Execs steps down first when companies fall.

Shameful at time is Corporate America.

Greed from financial corporations and Manufactures has led us to where we are today in the U.S.

MatthewRox

The FDIC does take over financial institution and resell them when bankruptcy occurs.

The gov should take over GM and resell it to the Japanese! I guarantee they will make rear wheel driver better!

MatthewRox

ALBANY, N.Y. (AP) -- New York Attorney General Andrew Cuomo says Citigroup executives should forgo their bonuses this year after the company announced massive layoffs.

Calling the layoffs of 53,000 people "disturbing," Cuomo says top executives shouldn't get bonuses while investors, taxpayers and employees suffer.

Cuomo adds that other companies should consider doing the same, including American International Group, which has received billions of federal bailout dollars.

In October, Cuomo's office asked nine banks to turn over information on bonuses. He wants to ensure none of the $125 billion the banks received from the government's Troubled Asset Relief Program will be used on executive pay.

Goldman Sachs Group announced Sunday its top executives won't get bonuses this year.

blackflag

I kind of disagree... Yes, if you were the only company in the marketplace, you would take advantage of your monopoly. But a monopoly is not the natural conclusion.

This is capitalism at work...when the U.S. companies made junk, the Japanese companies entered the market...and now they make better products. And now the Japanese control the marketplace. This is capitalism at work. Because of capitalism, there is no monopoly...and the weak will not survive. Unless their bad performance is subsidized by the government.

I can't even believe we're having this conversation. When Airbus competes against Boeing, everybody always cries about how Airbus is funded by the government and Boeing isn't...and how capitalism should be allowed to work, rather than socialism. And now...what? If I wanted to put my money into GM, I would buy GM stock. I shouldn't be forced to.

And, I say this as a Camaro afficionado, who wants an SS (or better yet - an LS7)...IF I were to invest money into a car company right now, it would not be in a company making a 400Hp V8 sports car.

MatthewRox

Congressman do listen to the people... you better believe it!!!! As of right now, they are not permitting the bucks to pass.


Just imagine, if the House passes the bailout for the BiG Manu, all of us will be paying until we die in tax dollars for companies we don't own or a vehicle lease that we will never have.

Snap

In my next life I want to be a UAW worker.
Heard the compensation comes out to about $70/hr..

Now I'm trying to be on a strict "made in USA" way of life, but they make it pretty hard and I'm not for handouts in those circumstances.

trm0002

Ya, something like that...