SweetZRag

I started a new thread so as not to muddy the original disciples topic thread as I think this topic deserves more conversation:

Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetZRag
I don't mean to take this thread on a tangent but 2, 3 & 4 have never happened to me and if you use a remote alarm key fob, they can't. If GM had your best interest at heart, they would enable the system to use your mobile phone (via bluetooth) instead of forcing you to purchase a redundant subscription to OnStar. I don't need 2 cell phone services.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JakeRob
The OnStar phone is a satellite phone, not a cell. It works anywhere in the world. In many new GM cars, bluetooth integration is there, but if there's no cell signal at all, the sat phone will still work.

SweetZRag:
OnStar uses cell phone networks for cell service although I'll admit the permanent antenna might give better reception than a handheld. The blue tooth integration profile only allows you to use your handheld through the stereo but it doesn't allow you to program the OnStar to use your existing handheld instead of purchasing their service. They also force you to pay a monthly fee for navigation services which costs nothing on a monthly basis from other manufacturers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetZRag
The likely hood of having an accident where several people don't quickly see it and call for help for you is too remote to make this service worth the price where most people live. At a minimum it should be an option, not standard, for those who live in remote areas where there might be a little value.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JakeRob
Well, you certainly aren't required to renew your subscription after the first year. That gives you one year to decide if it ever proves worthwhile to you.

SweetZRag:
Yet you will carry the equipment forever (unnecessary weight in a muscle car) and are forced to pay for equipment that provides little value over other available options. Also, the EDR combined with the OnStar will be used to gather information to be used against you in terms of warranty recognition, insurance costs and whatever other fees the government will dream up (i.e. carbon tax, etc.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetZRag
I know a guy who had a minor fender bender with another guy. They were both at fault and neither wanted to involve the police. But guess what, too late. OnStar already called the police. No thanks. I'll make that decision. And how will you feel when your insurance carrier starts using the data about your driving style to increase your rates?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JakeRob
Not calling the police after getting in an accident is illegal.

SweetZRag:
Not true where I live. See http://cbs3.com/local/Philadelphia.P...2.1660475.html Even if it were illegal, that doesn't make it right. And now that the police are starting to charge for 911 calls, do you really think you should be billed for a call you did not make if you accidentally bump something in your own driveway causing OnStar to make the call on your behalf?


Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetZRag
The loss of privacy far outweighs any possible benefit of this system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JakeRob
I think you're a bit excessively paranoid. I think most people would agree. That's your right, but you should realize that your opinion isn't fact, and isn't even the majority.

SweetZRag:
Sometimes the cost of being well read on a subject is that your opinion is not popular. It just makes me ahead of the pack, but still correct. If you consider being forced to purchase an option that has far more downside to most users than any possible benefit, then color me paranoid. If you don't think OnStar (combined with EDR) isn't the basis of future systems planned to take more of your hard earned money, you are in denial. In five years you will look back and say SweetZRag was right! Just look at the bill http://tomudall.senate.gov/?p=press_release&id=503 introduced recently to force all cars to have EDR. They even felt the need to state that EDR won't be used to track you, but combined with OnStar, it easily can and I believe eventually will. If you think you can trust your government to use this technology appropriately, think again. See http://news.cnet.com/2100-1029_3-5109435.html for proof how your government behaves when no one is looking. They already used OnStar to listen in on drivers for no reason other than their own entertainment. Wow. Maybe I am paranoid? Or just perceptive


Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetZRag
This equipment does not belong in a muscle car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JakeRob
What does being a muscle car have to do with it? Muscle cars drive on the same roads, most of the time with the same careless drivers yammering on cell phones behind the wheel, as econo-cars and A-to-B appliance cars. I gather that you object to OnStar-like services regardless of the type of car, so I guess I just don't know why you threw that in there at the end.

SweetZRag:
Your right that I object to OnStar as standard on all cars. But the spirit of a muscle car is to be light and fast and maybe enjoy some spirited driving on the track or on some backroads (safely!). I don't think satellite tracking or EDR (black box)should be a standard option on that type of car.

Koz2

I think your concerns are valid, and I can see something like that happening. It wouldn't be enough reason for me, or probably the vast majority of the car buying public to not buy a car though.

The bigger issues I have with OnStar is that it:
1. is treated as a navigation/infotainment screen replacement, when it simply isn't. Nav is something a lot of people want, and can cause plenty of people to walk away from buying a car if it isn't offered.

2. is just too expensive. The monthly plans should be an alternative to some other type of subscription offering. I let my free year expire and have no plan on ever renewing. However I'd gladly pay a $20 or $50 one-time fee (or more depending on the circumstance) for OnStar to unlock my car for me if I got locked out. If someone stole the car? I'd probably pay for the vehicle slow down service...But then again, I also pay a monthly fee for insurance, so maybe not.

jg95z28

Not this debate again.

Check out the archives. This has already been discussed AT GREAT LENGTH in the past.

I'm not buying the conspiracy theories either. However, I will say on my son's 2005 Trailblazer, we canceled the service after one year (free with purchase) because he never used it and we have AAA road service already. None of my other GM vehicles (5) have OnStar.

2010_5thgen

i agree with you 100%. i dont like my onstar. i will not be subscribing to it. not to mention i only have 2200 miles on my car and its just not seeing enough road time for me to pay for the services. i do not like the factthat it calls the cops for an accident. you dont need to involve the cops if it is not that bad. and the cops dont need to be involved when it is on private property(walmart parking lot, mall, restaraunt, or even at home).
i dont like the fact that it can control your car, listen to you on the phone and see where your at. the govt. WILL use this against you in the future. it will do more harm than help. this is the beginning of the end of our rights and freedom. most people think its a joke when people say that, but its the truth and everyone knows it.

35thCamaroZ28

I'm with you 100% on the "conspiracy" side of Onstar and related services.

They'll eventually use it against us and tax us so they can save the planet!

HuJass

So just unplug the stuff.

TOO Z MAXX

I dont want onstar either. They have and will use it against you.

SweetZRag

Agreed, but my point is why doesn't GM provide an "OFF" button or provide instructions in the owner's manual for those less technically inclined. Or better yet, just make it an option. I am actually more concerned with the EDR (black box) than the OnStar because you can't turn that off. Where is our hacker friends on this one? We need to find a way to disable the memory and release that info for the benefit of all.

HuJass

You'd probably need more than a hacker. I think the air-bag module is part of the black box. You'd probably need an EE to design a whole new module.

SweetZRag

Excellent idea. I happen to be an EE. Without access to the OEM design, it would be difficult. We need the aftermarket to design a replacement PCM with optional memory and performance software that allows you to modify from a touch display. It would be cool to have a bluetooth link to your laptop or IPOD or touch screen stereo so you can tune on the fly and turn off any tracking info you are not interested in.

2010_5thgen

now your onto something!!!!

softtail067

I have had mine with Onstar for about a month, now... and I love it!! The turn by turn navigation is unbeatable. Cmon. I was driving in a strange city, needed a Dollar General, and was downloaded turn by turn navigation to the nearest store. I have used Onstar to unlock my car, saving me $70 right there... You do not have to purchase the Hands free calling minutes, either... just my 2 cents. I have enjoyed it.

guionM

This thread is a rehash of another that ran a considerable length a couple of years ago (if that long). no new points were brought up in this thread that hasn't already been done.

YES.... OnStar CAN track your wherabouts.... so you better make sure your payments are up to date. That nifty feature that aids in theft recovery also aids in vehicle reposession.

NO... only a paranoid with an overactive imagination would dream up the system being used for something like a Carbon Tax. That person should actually read on what a Carbon Tax would be and how it would be assesed and paid.

YES... OnStar will know if you have an accident.

NO...OnStar will NOT call the police unless the airbag is deployed.

YES... OnStar has the capability of tracking your speed, but that technology is already in use by many rental car companies via the Navigation System (that's how they also tell if you took the car out of the country, which isn't permitted by most rental agencies).

NO... the government won't track you through OnStar....but....

YES...OnStar can keep track of the vehicle's condition. It has the capability to monitor your engine's performance (and the conditions of most of a vehicle's systems) and determine not only if you should bring your car in for repairs, but it also has the capability to tell if you do something to void the warranty.

While the government will need a court order or some legal decision to monitor you, General Motors doesn't. The precident lies in the "Black Boxes" that most cars made the past few years have had. The cover is "Liability Protecton". You have seen it in extensive use publically involving Toyota's sudden acceleration issues.

You get into an accident, and everything about your vehicle at and just before the time of the accident is already (even without OnStar) recorded and can be extracted easily. The speed you were going, the positions of your steering wheel, your use of the brakes, how and in what direction the car skidded. The whole enchalada.

Only if you cause a death or serious injury (ie: you paralize someone or turn them into a vegetable), the court can be petitioned to order the information be made available to law enforcement for criminal proccedings or to the victims for civil lawsuits.

Nobody's going to waste the time and money getting court ordered access to your black box or your OnStar information for a fenderbender or whiplash case, and with a gazillion cars on the road, unless you are a candidate for "America's Most Wanted" or you frequent Al-Queda websites, the Feds aren't going to waste time tracking you for simply for s*its and giggles.

So those of you getting worked up over OnStar, and not being able to get away with anything illegal, quazi-illegal, or warranty voiding actions or alterations, hate to break it to ya..... if you bought a car that was made the past 5 years, you almost certainly already have that technology in your car.

For those of you who can't live and breathe let alone find your a** without a Navigation System, you're even more compromised than those with just a black box.

Finally, for those of you who see the evil government scheming at every turn, I'm not gonna say a thing to you to change your minds..... you're far too much fun to simply sit back and watch.

2010_5thgen

i just got a letter from onstar that mine has been shut off since i didnt renew. they still cant track it though, right? or does all their stuff still work, just me getting things from them wont, since i didnt renew?

SweetZRag

I want some of the coolaid you are drinking. You must be one of those people who actually believe the government is your friend. The government is already misusing these technologies. Check the cases I sighted above. You state that the government is not doing this and not doing that because it is not worth their time. That is exactly the point. This technology makes it so it doesn't take any time or effort to collect information that is not in your best interest.

I just read today that they are putting finger print and retinal scanners on vending machines. Now they can track what you eat. They are even putting internet connections and video cameras in these machines so every vending machine will now be a surveillance point.

If you think a law protects you, laws can be changed with the stroke of a pen. Done all the time under the guise of protecting the "greater good". Everything looks innocent until all the pieces are in place and the noose tightens.

You need to read a little book written by George Orwell called "1984". We are there.

2010_5thgen - Yes they can still track you. The equipment still works and since you aren't using it, now they can't be sued for denial of service when they are listening in. So you are actually more at risk.