stars1010

Wow there is so much in this thread I dont agree with I dont even know where to start.

notgetleft

Not that i was alive during it, but you mean to tell me that low compression, small cams, and pellet type catalytic converters weren't responsible for killing performance / muscle cars?

I'm asking seriously because you're not the only person in this thread saying that. Again, i admit i wasn't alive, but when lumpy cam big blocks with factory dual exhaust dissapeared exactly when catalytic converters and unleaded gas appeared, i'm left confused.

90rocz

My Dad's '68 Camaro SS, 396/325, was $3,800 + change.
I wonder how much of the Fed.'s eliminating lead from the fuel was affected by the Tree Huggers?
I think Guy hit the nail on the head...Cubes, compression and Horsepower, fell like a meteor from the sky after this one.

Z28x

The Escalade is the Cadillac Fleetwood of our day and it has a 403HP/417tq V8 standard!!!!! With a V-series on the way!!!!

It is amazing what many of us today think is wimpy for car/truck XYZ and 10 years ago we were drooling over that #.

Anyone remember 225HP 1995 Mustang GTs? They still could smoke the tires pretty good. How about 200HP 5.7L Chevy truck...... 220HP in a Colorado doesn't look so bad now.

a 320HP 2001 WS6 Trans Am is as fast as the fastest car sold in the USA back in 1988.

falchulk

heh heh, no kidding!

turbo200

We're also entering a DESIGN Golden Era too, especially at GM. Things are going to be very exciting the next few years, and all my bitching for desirable cars will finally pay off. It's like a design orgasm

Bob Cosby

I didn't mean to imply that government regulation as a result of the environmental movement didn't have a part in it, but I think other things mentioned in this thread were a much larger part.

guionM

Muscle cars started tanking very VERY rapidly in 1970.

Catalytic converters started showing up in cars in 1974, though Chrysler got along without them in most V8 cars till '77. Low compression engines and their related smaller cams happened in '73 & '74. In 1973, you could almost hold a meeting of all high performance buyers that year in a school gymnasium.

In 1977, complete with single exhaust and pellet converter, Pontiac created Trans Am's TA/6.6 engine, which actually was a significant increase in horses over the previous few years with that engine.

If there was a market for muscle cars in the 1970s, you could bet your little finger that automakers would have had them on the market.... and they actually tried.

guionM

Back then, at least enviromentalists made sense, and were right. That lead in gasoline was coming out the tail pipe, and we all were sucking it in.

Today, though cars essentially no longer pollute, the only thing they come up with is "global warming".... too much CO2 in the air. Personally, I don't buy into it, but that's just me. The only answer is better fuel economy, but that isn't going to affect performance as long as the public demands it, so I'm not worried.

That's the word.

notgetleft

Thanks for the lesson. I never realized things got so bad so early since some of the 70s and 71s are the best of the bunch; I guess they were the swan song.

guionM

Yep. Except for Pontiac's Trans Am and Chrysler's Road Runner Volare & R/T Aspen with the 360 and duals, that was it.

Even the Z28 died in '74. When it came back just ahead of the 1978 model year (April '77), it had the identical engine that was in the new smaller Chevy Caprice.... the 170 horse LM1.

ProudPony

To add to the fray...

Ford's marketing prowess in 1969-1970 was simply unbelievable... it's like they had a crystal ball.
They foresaw the coming legislation on emmissions and fuel changes, and began to realign in mid-flight.
* Iacocca's insight to downsize the Mustang started in 1969 (see another thread in this forum for more details on this point). Don't laugh - the M-II was car of the year in 1974, and sold like $.25 hot dogs... it's what the people wanted at the right time.
* Ford stopped development of their performance engine programs after the incredible 429 Semi-hemi NASCAR engines (that powered the Boss 429 Mustang of 1969 and 1970).
* The 429 that was developed creeped into about 1800 Mach 1's in 1971 - ironically, THAT was the very engine that Bunkie Knudsen made the car so big for!
* The Boss 351 was the fastest Mustang ever until the 2003 Cobras, and it also died in it's innaugural year - 1971. (A lower compression version was offered in 1972 as an "R-code" known as the 351 H.O. - also available for only one year, most speculate to use the Boss parts up.)
* Smog systems on California cars in 1970 became mandatory, most took it off as soon as they got home and threw it away, now they're some of the most highly sought-after and expensive NOS parts in the hobby.
* In 1970, Ford pulled out of all auto racing programs. Only private partys maintained race teams, and without Ford factory sponsorship. Ford was basically out of all racing and performance auto sports for the entire decade.
* The Maverick and Pinto came to market in 1970 and 1971 respectively. The Maverick was to replace the fatter Falcon. The Pinto was Ford's first shot at a true American compact (that didn't really go to well, as some may recall. ). Both of these cars were meant to be more economical and "thrifty" than the models they replaced, and both have reputations that carry on even today - despite being dead since 1980!

I could go on and on, but you get the jest by now i'm sure. 1969/1970 was really a huge turning point for Ford, basically finding them walking away from a very dominant performance program grown in the 1960's, that included the Shelby GT350R cars that won championships routinely, the Boss 302 Trans-Am championships, multiple NASCAR championships with David Pearson and Cale Yarborough, Don Garlits taking NHRA championships, 428 CobraJet S/Stock championships, GT-40s that were raping Ferraris and Porsches on domestic and foreign tracks alike, Daytona Coupes that dominated, SC Cobras that dominated, etc, etc, etc.
To see Ford just close-up shop and walk away from all that success and investment in just 1 year... well, it must have been utterly jaw-dropping in 1970. I can't imagine that happening again.

But again, some of the cars they replaced the musclecars and land-yachts with actually have reputations that live strong even today, and the company certainly was reaping the rewards with HUGE sales and customer satisfaction from the mid-'70s through the '80s. And as guionM commented in another thread, Donald Petersen presided over a period of unprecedented success for Ford through the 1980s. Just goes to show that sometimes what appears to be a crazy decision to an enthusiast (like abandoning/radically changing the vehicles that seem to be your bread-and-butter) can turn out to be a wise move for the company in the long run.

Food for thought.

90rocz

They also had the "6.6 Liter" engine as stamped on the hood scoop, an Olds 403ci version. But I believe the 1974 or '75(?) 455/SD motors were said to be the strongest.(I was big into Pontiacs then, that's why I bought a '67 Firebird 400 for my first car.)(I felt Camaro had betrayed me with the body switch of 1970...now I kinda like'em. )
I loved the return of the Z28's....my cousin had a show quality, Blue with light and dark blue decal/striped, chin spoilers, hood scoop, rallys, quarter flares, 350/4bbl/Auto-350T, '79 Z28...it could still roast the tires pretty easily.
I liked the 160mph speedo's too..

Pandamonkey

Wow.......this post is a ray of light in an otherwise dark horizen.

DontMixWithRice

lets not forget the 40 year anniversary