christianjax

Only because Chevy hung their holster 6 years ago. Should make it a fair fight when Chevy hasn't been fighting.

CLEAN

Still, one wonders what kind of Mustang Ford would have put out for 2005 had this Camaro debuted in 2002. These 2 cars need each other, for their own good.

GTOJack

The Shelby GT500 with 500hp, the Shelby GT500KR with 540hp, the Shelby Super Snakes at 625 and 700hp. No knives there. Ford has sold over 500,000 current generation Mustangs, so its safe to say the consumers have acepted them, and now, in response to GMs Camaro, Ford ups the GT power with a 5.0 liter, 400hp engine to compete straight up with Camaro and Challenger.

TrickStang37

How if they've been the market leader in this segment for a couple decades now?

bossco

I know that, but just wanted to give some perspective - people love to use the OHC multivalve heads as a slam against Ford saying they can't do it with two valves. I doubt anyobdy really can on a small bore like that. Ford had no choice but to go multivalve if they wanted to make any kind of power without being on the ragged edge of streetability. There are 100 hp/liter 2 valve motors out there but its not the sort of engine anybody would want to live with on a daily or probably even an hourly basis.

bossco

One wonders???? It would have been nice to have an all aluminum 5.4 3v in the GT or even a 4v 4.6.

Still in the wider lens would the Mustang have been much different? Mustangs are cheap and they are made to appeal to a wide audience and the current car shares nothing with any other car or truck in Fords inventory and I swear IIRC that Ford made the business case on 80k cars a year.

Had the Mustang been a dud or even on target I don't think we would be seeing the MCE car with a new interior or even heard some whispers about the 400hp 5.0 despite the F5 coming out.

CLEAN

I guess my point was that if the Camaro had still been around, the GT may not have had that weak 4.6 that makes less power than my Impala, may have had a better interior, may have looked a bit more like the concept. This MCE that is coming could have been the '05 Mustang from the get go. But as it was, they had no one to keep up w/ and cut some corners IMO. Now that the competition is back, it's getting the engine/transmission/interior that it could have had all along. Just because the car has sold doesn't mean that it couldn't have been even better.

2K05GT

I own a 2005 Mustang GT, I bought back in July 2005. I love the car, it look sweet, But I too Love the New Camaro ( Finnaly got rid of the hatch back)
I am buying a new SS and will be parking it right by my Mustang.

I have different reasons why I want both cars, For one the Camaro has a Advanced suspension, better interoir (except the front guage cluster, no feeling it) I feel the Camaro is more of a Road Car not a Drag racer, just like the Terminators and Corvettes, these cars are for cutting the corners, handling is the name of the game, Since the start of the camaro was in Australia, they ( europians and Aussies) like road cars, love the "Driving experiance" why do you think they tested the Camaro in Germany's rings???
the car handles like it's on rails... Thats what I am looking for in the Camaro..
The Mustang was more of an american streight line car (thinks of the Top gear episode) why a solid rear? sure it's cheaper, but it is the best for Drag Racing, I can launch my Auto with Stock rubber sub 1.9 and with DR sub 1.8 60' times. with just bolt ones (intake, tune, headers, gears) I ran 12.415@109.35 in the 1/4 mile with a race weight of 3700lbs. On a Stock Motor and Stock Auto Tranny (stock stall)

So think of it as the Camaro had grown up a bit and gone europian, Maybe Top gear will put the 5th gen Camaro at the top of the leader board when "the stig" wets himself after driving the camaro

bossco

2K the S-197 is a competent road car - maybe not to the extent the F5 will be - but the S-197 will bitch slap the Terminator when the road starts to wind up. As much as everybody rags on the GT500 for being a nose heavy bulldoser incapable of steering any better than a fully laden super tanker with it rudder torn off in a hurricane. I've seen footage of a GT500 and a Terminator driven by the same driver on a track and the GT500 smoked the Terminator to the tune for 2 seconds along with the driver commenting that the GT500 was the better sorted out car - and for those keeping count, the GT500 only has 55 more pounds of weight on the nose (and a bit higher Cg) engine wise compared to the Terminator (courtesy of the 5.4 iron block vs. the 4.6 iron block).

2K05GT

I have seen it, I know..
I attended the VIR Holliday laps and we placed are cars from fastest to slowest so we could get the best run (We could not Pass) My car was only running 13.1 back then.

Lead car Cadi CTS-V Supercharged Track tuned (Driven by VIR Owner)
2007 GT500
2004 Termi
2003 Termi
Me 2005 Mustang GT...

click link below for video
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/V...onal_95747.htm
Skip to lap 2 I get a better feel for the road, my first time there.

What I am saying is that the New Camaro will be better, the Hightech IRS 4.5 Link looks just like a vettes but beafy. MCF struts, although the camaro front end is simular to the S197's new design

Chevymuscle311

Thats pretty funny considering the LS1 4th Gens will **** all over any non GT500 punstang and they have been out since 98. And what exactly is Fords answer for the Vette??? Stay on the Ford boards buddy you arent impressing anyone here

bossco

Wouldn't have anything to do with 90 to 120 extra HP would it? I didn't see at any point the Cobra really handling the corners any better than your car in the vid. The terminator only really pulled ahead on the straights - no big surprise.

The terminator being a better road car is again utter bull****. The IRS in the terminator is nothing more than a sales gimmick - the SN95/New Edge cars only really prove that fat tires do indeed make a car stick to the road. The myth about terminators out handling the S-197 (more specifically the GT500) was borne out of a.) jealous terminator owners who suddenly found themselves to be the old dogs in the kennel and b.) pissed off terminator owners who thought that they would be waltzing into a Ford dealer and for a coupla thousand more upgrading into a GT500.

I'm telling you 2K, pick your fights with a terminator and all that S/C'd muscle wont really do it any good if there isn't enough straight road to use it. The only edge the car has in suspension is another 40mm of rubber per tire on the road which is diminshed by an archaic front suspension and a hobbled rear suspension. Your GT trounces the dynamics of the Terminator in just about every area - better F/R weight distribution, better center of gravity, uses its tires better, stiffer chassis, ect, ect, ect.

2K05GT

Non GT500 ??? Cobra Terminators are not GT500's
and why the childish names? Punstang?? you don't see me calling your Camaro
a c*ntmaro do you?... now keep the childish remarks to yourself they are not constructive and just take us of the topic......

BTW, Ford does not really have an answer to the Vette per say, unless you include the Ford GT, but it cost twice as much as the top line vette..

2K05GT

I will have to take your word for it, you sound like you know the newedge;s well, I on the other hand do not, the Mustang is the First non GM car I have owned besides the 2004 Chrysler 300M (My wifes) now she drives the Vette.

I perfer Drag Racing My Mustang though, Here is my Run with Ranger's Vette at MIR
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/2...ild_141647.htm
before the JBA Long Tube Headers...

bossco

Yeah, I've got some perspective with both the fox and SN95/New Edge cars. Going from fox to SN95 to New Edge were all incremental steps. In each case there was a difference but not to the extent that the S-197 changed things. Despite the addition of 200-300 pounds of weight (maybe even 400 in the case of your average fox car) the S-197 trounces the earlier cars - IMO the 3-link rear suspension creating the most notable difference on the SRA cars

Heh.. cool vid btw, I really wanted to go to VIR for the holiday laps, but I busted up my knee on the gas/brake leg and had to get surgery.

There is a PDX hopefully still in the works at Summit Point this september --->fingers crossed<--- I'm hoping that nothing comes up till then to prevent me from going.