View Poll Results: What concerns YOU more on the Camaro?
Voters: 179. You may not vote on this poll
What concerns you more? Cost or weight?
06-11-2008, 03:54 PM
#61
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Oshawa - Home of the 5th-gen
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Guys (Charlie!), keep in mind that Scott said quite awhile back that they were VERY aware of our concerns over weight, and they "called Jenny Craig" 
.
They knew the car is/was getting heavy. Has much changed since then?
That, unfortunately, we've yet to find out. But I guess I'm trying to have a little faith, and try to remember that the GTO is about ~3700 lbs, so hopefully all things considered (including Scott's attempted reassurance) the Camaro does not end up being a bloated pig .
And just a comment to Mjolnir ... you seem pretty convinced that anything we whine and cry about here is all for not, but keep in mind, via Scott ("Fbodfather"), GM has reached out to our enthusiast community for our comments/questions/concerns
. We've had the focus group have TWO meeting weekends with the Camaro design team. Several members from this site are a part of this group.
... and you don't think anything we say here matters??
I'm not expecting GM to seek our stamp of approval for every decision they make with the car. Nor do I expect them to spend millions on weight reduction alone either. But I DO KNOW that if we say NOTHING until the car comes out, the car may be 100% the opposite to what we would all like. If we all speak our minds NOW, at least there's a chance that the feedback can get back to GM, and they can hopefully at least consider some of our input
.
But if you want to keep this to simple "so what color are you going to buy" threads, then have at it
.
.They knew the car is/was getting heavy. Has much changed since then?
That, unfortunately, we've yet to find out. But I guess I'm trying to have a little faith, and try to remember that the GTO is about ~3700 lbs, so hopefully all things considered (including Scott's attempted reassurance) the Camaro does not end up being a bloated pig .And just a comment to Mjolnir ... you seem pretty convinced that anything we whine and cry about here is all for not, but keep in mind, via Scott ("Fbodfather"), GM has reached out to our enthusiast community for our comments/questions/concerns
. We've had the focus group have TWO meeting weekends with the Camaro design team. Several members from this site are a part of this group.... and you don't think anything we say here matters??
I'm not expecting GM to seek our stamp of approval for every decision they make with the car. Nor do I expect them to spend millions on weight reduction alone either. But I DO KNOW that if we say NOTHING until the car comes out, the car may be 100% the opposite to what we would all like. If we all speak our minds NOW, at least there's a chance that the feedback can get back to GM, and they can hopefully at least consider some of our input
.But if you want to keep this to simple "so what color are you going to buy" threads, then have at it
.
06-11-2008, 04:09 PM
#62
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Location: Chicagoland IL
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06-11-2008, 04:24 PM
#63
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Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: SoCal
Posts: 3,463
Guys (Charlie!), keep in mind that Scott said quite awhile back that they were VERY aware of our concerns over weight, and they "called Jenny Craig" .
They knew the car is/was getting heavy. Has much changed since then? That, unfortunately, we've yet to find out. But I guess I'm trying to have a little faith, and try to remember that the GTO is about ~3700 lbs, so hopefully all things considered (including Scott's attempted reassurance) the Camaro does not end up being a bloated pig
.They knew the car is/was getting heavy. Has much changed since then?
That, unfortunately, we've yet to find out. But I guess I'm trying to have a little faith, and try to remember that the GTO is about ~3700 lbs, so hopefully all things considered (including Scott's attempted reassurance) the Camaro does not end up being a bloated pig 
.And I get worried.
06-11-2008, 04:54 PM
#65
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Join Date: Nov 1998
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 3,252
And I absolutely do also care about MPG (more than handling), though I have no desire to get a V6 or Miata.
Sucks to be me, I guess.
BTW....for the highway...the 4th Gen F-body was EXCELLENT on gas.
Half the people who picked weight have hedged by saying they believe Chevy will already deliver an affordable car. That is not what the poll is asking.
What the poll is really asking is whether you would take a 3600lb $35K V8 Camaro or a 3900lb $30K V8 Camaro. Make that poll and the results will 80-20 PRICE.
Just like you want a certain weight.
Neither of us can control the outcome of somebody else's decisions, but we both get to ask for it.
The difference between us is I'm asking a human being to engage in self control.
Self-control.
Complaints about weight are asking a corporation to throw away millions (if not billions) of development costs a few months before production begins.
I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed (by far), but I might....just might...be slightly sharper than the dullest.
One is more reasonable than another.
Interesting line of reasoning.
If the rumours on this board are true, ~$21k - $28k for V6s and $28k - $38k for V8s.
That would make it's competitors the Mustang and most of the japanese sport coupes.
Curious.... what will be the weight of a 2010 V8 Camaro?
We're both guilty of making assumptions and statements based on rumour, and not observed fact.
My pricing could be wrong, your weight could be wrong.
At this point, pricing is subject to far more change than weight, and that means "we" still have some leverage where that's concerned.
Much like doing the same with weight. We all know this.
Back to your Nirvanna.
Bob
06-11-2008, 05:06 PM
#66
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: AR (PA born and fled)
Posts: 859
Unless you have real world experience with what weight does to a car... like, you know... guys who actually compete with their cars. Then those figures become a little more than numbers.
I'll say this with regard to "wait until you drive it"....
I bought a new 3rd gen in 1991. I still remember how it felt behind the wheel.
I bought a new 4th gen in 1996. Ordered it January without so much as test driving or even being inside of any 4th gen. Dumb? Perhaps but I was barely 24 and I "knew" what I wanted.
The '96 felt like an absolute tank after driving my '91 for 5 years. I mean it felt huge and heavy but was only at most 300 lbs heavier. I can only cringe when I think what this new car will feel like at 500 - 600 lbs heavier than my '96.
FWIW the additional weight of my '96 didn't bother me at the time. I was happy because 285 hp was pretty heady stuff in the early '90s and my old car just wasn't fast enough anymore. Like I said, I was 24. Today I'm no longer at ease with the bulk of my car even though it's a good bit lighter than new.
I'm a very different type of customer now that I've become experienced in the competition side of things. I want a responsive car that will allow me to do what I do behind the wheel. I don't necessarily need an insanely powerful one. I beat more powerful cars all the time and less powerful cars beat me. Why do you suppose that is?
I'll say this with regard to "wait until you drive it"....
I bought a new 3rd gen in 1991. I still remember how it felt behind the wheel.
I bought a new 4th gen in 1996. Ordered it January without so much as test driving or even being inside of any 4th gen. Dumb? Perhaps but I was barely 24 and I "knew" what I wanted.
The '96 felt like an absolute tank after driving my '91 for 5 years. I mean it felt huge and heavy but was only at most 300 lbs heavier. I can only cringe when I think what this new car will feel like at 500 - 600 lbs heavier than my '96.
FWIW the additional weight of my '96 didn't bother me at the time. I was happy because 285 hp was pretty heady stuff in the early '90s and my old car just wasn't fast enough anymore. Like I said, I was 24.
Today I'm no longer at ease with the bulk of my car even though it's a good bit lighter than new.I'm a very different type of customer now that I've become experienced in the competition side of things. I want a responsive car that will allow me to do what I do behind the wheel. I don't necessarily need an insanely powerful one. I beat more powerful cars all the time and less powerful cars beat me. Why do you suppose that is?
06-11-2008, 05:23 PM
#67
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I'm not saying everyone is going to agree with that, or be happy with that... but it is what it is. If performance was the only goal, we sure as heck wouldn't be getting this upright seating position either, let alone the concerns about weight.
06-11-2008, 05:29 PM
#68
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06-11-2008, 05:54 PM
#69
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 61
I say the weight if we are talking about $2k or less cost difference. I always owned GM sedans but want a 2-door car for a change. However, if the weight difference between a Camaro and a G8 (with a similar drivetrain) is less than 250 lbs, it makes no sense for me to buy a Camaro.
06-11-2008, 05:55 PM
#70
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Location: Commerce, mi, USA
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The sad, sad, irony here, is that GM dictated that Camaro share an architecture with fullsized sedans in order to spread cost over several hundred thousand cars per year. But those sedans were cancelled, mainly because their heft would have adversly affected GM's CAFE numbers and consumer acceptance.
When all is said and done, Camaro essentially comes in, just as heavy as those cancelled sedans, with no other product to share costs with. Okay, maybe the DTS replacement might happen on Zeta, but that's it.
The result: Camaro is left holding about a quarter ton of excess baggage because it was yoked to a dead/dying large sedan architecture - a large sedan architecture, now with no sedans.
The money spent on Zeta, could have given Camaro it very own ponycar appropriate architecture. In fact, they might have even spun off a 'sensible for the times', fun-to-drive sedan or two from that. Hmmm. Something to think about.
I seriously doubt at this particular point in time, if a Zeta based Camaro is even all that economical to build for GM. Certainly, nowhere near the economies of scale projected for it. So, although GM no longer has the cost advantages of platform-sharing for Camaro, it does end up carrying the burden of all that weight as it's legacy.
When all is said and done, Camaro essentially comes in, just as heavy as those cancelled sedans, with no other product to share costs with. Okay, maybe the DTS replacement might happen on Zeta, but that's it.
The result: Camaro is left holding about a quarter ton of excess baggage because it was yoked to a dead/dying large sedan architecture - a large sedan architecture, now with no sedans.
The money spent on Zeta, could have given Camaro it very own ponycar appropriate architecture. In fact, they might have even spun off a 'sensible for the times', fun-to-drive sedan or two from that. Hmmm. Something to think about.
I seriously doubt at this particular point in time, if a Zeta based Camaro is even all that economical to build for GM. Certainly, nowhere near the economies of scale projected for it. So, although GM no longer has the cost advantages of platform-sharing for Camaro, it does end up carrying the burden of all that weight as it's legacy.
I swear, there is just nothing that makes you happy, is there.
GM's gone out on a limb - and is set to deliver an all-new, V8, IRS, 2+2 Camaro, loaded to the gills with all manner of modern luxury, in just a few months. Yet - listen to the bleating and moaning about what "could have been"! I say, baloney to this line of thinking. Extrapolating off Zeta was the enabler that allowed the new Camaro to be developed. Thank God, it was, and another thanks for all the cool stuff it will come with. If you want a nice, lightweight car.... maybe the Smart ForTwo is for you?
06-11-2008, 08:39 PM
#72
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However, what if the basis of what I want was baked into every car? What if the nucleus of all this was a smaller, lighter, more tossable car? I could get my no nonsense car and someone else could still get some loaded high end model if they desired. Everybody gets what they want in that situation and everybody benefits from having a more tidy package. Why wouldn't that scenario sell more cars? I've said before I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is and pay more for the low production car I want. The problem is that the car I want probably isn't really possible from a four door sedan at any price.
Actually a more upright position is better for performance driving than the legs splayed out in front of you 3rd / 4th gen arrangement or the gangster drive by position.
06-11-2008, 10:10 PM
#73
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BTW, I've got a question for you in this thread. https://www.camaroz28.com/forums/sho...=592448&page=6
Last edited by Z284ever; 06-11-2008 at 10:23 PM.
06-11-2008, 10:44 PM
#74
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The 6th gen will certainly be smaller/lighter for all those that don't end up liking this one, and I suspect it's not 11 model years away like the last 2 generations were.
For the record, we're buying a new one. I don't care what it costs, I don't care what it weighs.
For the record, we're buying a new one. I don't care what it costs, I don't care what it weighs.
