View Poll Results: What concerns YOU more on the Camaro?
Voters: 179. You may not vote on this poll
What concerns you more? Cost or weight?
06-11-2008, 09:31 AM
#46
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That's not what I'm saying at all. Not even close.
To make the business case, Camaro needed to share an architecture. There was support for a smaller than Zeta architecture for Camaro, but internal politics killed products that would share the cost, (ie., Torana, RWD G6, small Caddy, etc.).
So, we find ourselves with a Camaro which in essence IS on it's own unique architecture. Except its not best suited for the Camaro or the current market and GM wil be scrambling to replace it soon.
Man alive, talk about penny wise and pound foolish. There are certain people near the top of the foodchain at GM, who deserve to get some heat on this, both from The Board and the shareholders. Of course, that'll never happen.
06-11-2008, 09:42 AM
#47
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Commodore/G8 is sharing the platform for now. GM will have to find something to build in Ohsawa too alongside Camaro... if they havent already.
06-11-2008, 09:56 AM
#48
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Not really. Certain individuals within GM helped kill a smaller/lighter than Zeta RWD architecture - one that a 5th gen Camaro would have used - simply because of political expedience.
I'm not saying they should be fired, I'm saying that their motives and judgements deserve scrutiny.
GM would sure be in a sweeter position now, if the money spent on Zeta, would have gone towards a CAFE friendly RWD architecture, with a future.
06-11-2008, 10:03 AM
#49
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Hey, forget about me jg. I'm just some schmoe on the internet who would have bought a Camaro or two. No big loss to GM on that front, (although I have sort of noticed that what I buy, seems to influence buying decisions of those around me, 
).
The larger concern though, is how viable a 2+ ton, ...ermm.....'ponycar' is in our current environment? And don't think for a minute that GM isn't thinking/concerning/talking about it. They are.
The weight that would have made me happy, would have made lots of people happy. Lemme see...there's me, there's the Camaro Team, there's the GM Board of Directors, there's the enthusiast community at large, there's the workers at Oshawa, there's Bob Cosby, there's "Jenny the receptionist", ( and everyone like her, looking for a sporty fuel sipping car), hell, I betcha even you jg.
The crappiest part about this whole deal is, that I really got the feeling that the 'Camaro Team' really wanted to bring out the best Camaro ever. It's too bad that Zeta couldn't lose the weight.
).The larger concern though, is how viable a 2+ ton, ...ermm.....'ponycar' is in our current environment? And don't think for a minute that GM isn't thinking/concerning/talking about it. They are.
The weight that would have made me happy, would have made lots of people happy. Lemme see...there's me, there's the Camaro Team, there's the GM Board of Directors, there's the enthusiast community at large, there's the workers at Oshawa, there's Bob Cosby, there's "Jenny the receptionist", ( and everyone like her, looking for a sporty fuel sipping car), hell, I betcha even you jg.
The crappiest part about this whole deal is, that I really got the feeling that the 'Camaro Team' really wanted to bring out the best Camaro ever. It's too bad that Zeta couldn't lose the weight.
I don't disagree with your message Charlie. I'm just not as hung up about weight as others are. I like the looks of the new Camaro. If it performs well (at similar levels to equivalently equipped Mustangs), it'll be acceptable to me regardless of how much it weighs. Ergo, price is more important to me than weight.
06-11-2008, 10:06 AM
#50
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06-11-2008, 10:14 AM
#51
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Having said that, there's a big difference between discussing how weight will negatively affect the vehicle (talking) and complaining about it.
Yep.
Just like you want a certain weight.
Neither of us can control the outcome of somebody else's decisions, but we both get to ask for it.
The difference between us is I'm asking a human being to engage in self control. Complaints about weight are asking a corporation to throw away millions (if not billions) of development costs a few months before production begins.
One is more reasonable than another.
That would make it's competitors the Mustang and most of the japanese sport coupes.
Curious.... what will be the weight of a 2010 V8 Camaro?
We're both guilty of making assumptions and statements based on rumour, and not observed fact.
My pricing could be wrong, your weight could be wrong.
At this point, pricing is subject to far more change than weight, and that means "we" still have some leverage where that's concerned.
06-11-2008, 10:32 AM
#52
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I agree. You miss my point. (Yes, I wasn't very clear.) At this point in time (productionwise), sure they may be able to shave off a few pounds. However they cannot shave off enough weight to make it a featherweight or by your definition, more ponycar-like.
I don't disagree with your message Charlie. I'm just not as hung up about weight as others are. I like the looks of the new Camaro. If it performs well (at similar levels to equivalently equipped Mustangs), it'll be acceptable to me regardless of how much it weighs. Ergo, price is more important to me than weight.
I don't disagree with your message Charlie. I'm just not as hung up about weight as others are. I like the looks of the new Camaro. If it performs well (at similar levels to equivalently equipped Mustangs), it'll be acceptable to me regardless of how much it weighs. Ergo, price is more important to me than weight.
No arguments there. What's done is done. We're getting what we're getting.
06-11-2008, 12:46 PM
#53
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Curb weight is probably more important to enthusiasts as it's more crucial to the performance models. I've got no doubt GM will price the Camaro near the Mustang as the livelyhood of the car depends on it. Pricing can also change more easily than weight.
I'm much more worried about a 3900-4000lb Camaro V8 that what it will cost. That kind of weight is going to drag down performance and driving prowness. The only way to fix it is adding more power and then the car will need a stronger and probably heavier suspension and braking system to compensate further pushing up weight. It would seem to be an ugly game to play on a heavy platform.
I'm much more worried about a 3900-4000lb Camaro V8 that what it will cost. That kind of weight is going to drag down performance and driving prowness. The only way to fix it is adding more power and then the car will need a stronger and probably heavier suspension and braking system to compensate further pushing up weight. It would seem to be an ugly game to play on a heavy platform.
06-11-2008, 01:34 PM
#54
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Its also entirely possible if GM knew back then where things would be today, Camaro may not have happened at all.
06-11-2008, 01:42 PM
#55
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But once the '05 Mustang's consumer reaction was gauged and the St. Therese situation was resolved - this car was gonna happen.
06-11-2008, 02:41 PM
#57
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Weight concerned me the most until I saw what a G8 could do. Now I don't care if the Camaro weighs 3000lbs or 4000lbs. It will accelerate and handle better than my LS1 either way. I just hope GM doesn't make the LS3 a limited edition so the dealers can put sky high mark ups on them.
06-11-2008, 03:28 PM
#59
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We don't need to guess about anything. The LS3 SS test mule has run 12.7 @113. Damned good enuff for any gearhead. MPG, handling... go buy a V6 or a Miata.
Half the people who picked weight have hedged by saying they believe Chevy will already deliver an affordable car. That is not what the poll is asking.
What the poll is really asking is whether you would take a 3600lb $35K V8 Camaro or a 3900lb $30K V8 Camaro. Make that poll and the results will 80-20 PRICE.
Half the people who picked weight have hedged by saying they believe Chevy will already deliver an affordable car. That is not what the poll is asking.
What the poll is really asking is whether you would take a 3600lb $35K V8 Camaro or a 3900lb $30K V8 Camaro. Make that poll and the results will 80-20 PRICE.
Also if you had asked me 5 years ago I would have said cost because I was in a different financial situation.
