Primus

I also read an article that said they were going to be production line "re-rates" at Oshawa, whatever that means. I don't see how it can be good.

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/081107/gm_production.html?.v=2

350 HRSS

This is all very nerve wracking, and not something I wanted to read on a Friday....plus, I just came back from the dealer, from updating my order It would be extremely sad if the Camaro never makes it to reality....why the HECK they are wanting to still wait until Feb. to start production beats the he** out of me.....

Let's hope someone steps in....

snooter

no matter how they try to spin it the sold numbers for the camaro are not that great..but its no different for anybody else..if the trend continues GM will be cash broke come january 1, 2009.....they are losing over 12billion a month and only have 19billion on hand......camaro will go on until and during bankruptcy which GM needs to declare..GM has to get out from the agreements made 50 plus years ago....if camaro survives beyond that is anybodys guess

2010_5thgen

THE CAR ISNT EVEN OUT YET!!!! those number are pretty damn good for a car most of the people havent even seen! there are still alot of people that dont even know about the camaro. 8,000 sold cars is amazing for a car that isnt even complete. those numbers you have to , are not correct. they have enough cash on hand to run the company for the next 6-8 months at least.

Primus

?? They do *not* have the cash on hand to continue operations for the next 6-8 months with the current market conditions. They have specifically said as much. And they would not say something as doom and gloom as that unless it was fact.

MatthewRox

Listen,

Camaro Orders can be placed etc. Production entail Vendors and parts for GM. If the banks are not so quick to lend to GM..... GM doesn't have cash on hand to pay for parts to carry. Vendors will not be so quick to give GM balance based on their disposition : EQUALS----- Camaro not built.

Agonizing it is, a company can go belly up within a night's declaration as we know from Washington Mutual.

Bad news suck, but that is reality! Things change so fast.

But honestly, do you really want to own a vehicle that was only manufacture for less then 6 months? Imagine the cost of parts replacement.

Well, cross those fingers to see what happens... so close but so far away!

Chewbacca

When did they do this? Source? You won't find one because this simply isn't the case. Pure fanboy hyperbole.

They're hoping to sell about 100K units per year and only spent ~$250 million on the car's development. If the future of a global company hinges on one product, don't you think they would need to sell more of them? If their future depended on this one car, maybe they would have spent a little more on development as well?

Considering the company needs approximately $14 billion in the bank at any given time just to keep the lights on, I'd say you're exaggerating things more than just a bit.

Their problems go far beyond one or even a few car models. That is, unless you can explain how they plan turn a $14 million profit on each Camaro sold.

polo3433

I will put it to you like this. GM will save the Camaro from being eliminated, but the Camaro will not save GM from being eliminated.

snooter

januay 1 2009..its game over and thats the simple fact...may be sooner as some are saying 14billion is going to be lost this month

embpic

Ok.. GM said they will run out of cash this quarter without the govt stepping in. They have also said that bankruptcy is not an option(who wants to buy a car that might not have a warranty if they shut the doors).

So using basic deduction:

No govt bailout = no GM = no Camaro (scheduled to be built after this quarter).

I am wondering where the bottom is. The govt has some BIG financial hurdles that make GM problems seem minuscule(Social security. health care etc.)

I hope the Camaro will be built. I really want to buy it in it's second year of production. I however do not support a bailout. What is the incentive to have sound business practices if you expect the govt to bail you out when you screw up.

The Wall Street deal is a whole different animal. There is a big difference between a country wide financial collapse and the shutdown of a large manufacturing company (GM).

snooter

i agree and i truly believe the biggest problem is the great unknown regarding the tax plan redo..nobody knows what rate they will be paying..65% on small business has been passed around as well as near 40% in capital gains...it just means if you have cash on hand you cannot buy anything due to no knowing how much they are going to take away....raise cash is the only thing to do and many are doing just that and will not buy any big ticket purchase

guionM

I wouldn't call it "gloom and doom", but I do have a term for your post that I'd identify by the initials "B" and "S".

Camaro production is certainly assured. If Camaros don't roll down the assembly line, you can bet the farm that there's also other massive casualties at GM bigger than the Camaro.

GM's priority is MONEY. That includes both making it as well as saving it. In short, any way that GM can produce money, it will produce money.

GM KNOWS there is a high amount of intrest in the Camaro. GM is also looking over at Chrysler where the Dodge Challenger's production is seemingly unaffected by either the economy or the talk about Chrysler being bought out. So, GM knows the Camaro will generate money.

The other item is utilizing assets to produce money. The reason why GM would sell cars at a loss by piling incentives on them is because it's makes better financial sense using assets to generate something of value than to have them set dormant not making anything. The Camaro assembly line is set up. All the expenses related to creating the Camaro have already been spent. The training is continuing, and the people are still there.

If GM failed to make the Camaro, those people will still be paid, the bills on the plant will continue to come, the taxes on it will continue to be assessed, and the investment used will simply be sitting there, doing absolutely nothing.

The CEO of Southwest Airlines has a colorful term for utilizing assets: "Making sure seats have butts" as well as "Planes don't make money sitting on the ground" ( meaning SWA has a high tempo turnaround at the gate that isn't afraid to leave people behind). It's also true that assembly lines don't make money if they aren't being used: however minimally.

I'm not going to even go into the orders GM already has for Camaro, and the potential for liability claims in the event GM doesn't deliver.

One of the annoying things about the internet is how easy it is for someone who doesn't understand how things work to ignite rumors with posts and statements that wouldn't pass muster in even elementary school business classes let alone the reality of the automobile business. This thread is a prime example of how wild rumors start.

I sympathize with Scott on how he wanders onto a site and sees a thread on fire because of someone's ill thought out rumor creating a panic.

Camaro is safe.

The Cruize is safe.

The CTS coupe is also safe.

In that order.

If these vehicles don't come out, it's only because there is no General Motors Corperation around to bring them out, and pretty much the production of All GM vehicles have halted.


Once again, we need to get a grip and stop putting out ill thought out alarmist posts and threads..... especially if we are not basing anything on facts or basic business practices... just because we like to create and spread pessimism.

That type of stuff belongs in the Lounge.

8Banger

I think that is the point. My feeling is they will be around for a very long time and our Camaros will be built
without a hitch.

snooter

CNBC..."at current burn rate they will be gone before christmas"..now from where i sit thats about as bad as it can get..merry christmas to all

guionM

If you are making a quarter million dollars per year, I doubt this is an issue.

If you are making less than 120K per year, we're not even on the tax increase radar.

The issue is that people are fearful of their jobs, and (in case you missed the past month or so) banks aren't lending.

GMAC now requires scores of over 700! That has zilch to do with taxes.

Credit cards now require higher minimum payments. Again, unrelated to taxes.

Lenders that still finance car loans require a much higher down payment. You guessed it.... no tax issue there.

The issue is loans, not some tax issue that you and I aren't going to be adversely involved in. Unless you're in the upper 5% of wage earners.... but at that altitude, I don't think you're very concerned about getting a loan for a $25-30K vehicle.