The Sad News
12-26-2006, 11:42 AM
#46
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Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Chicagoland IL
Posts: 16,179
Okay, Okay.
Let us, for the sake of argument, say that there is no 2009 Z28.
Let us say that there is going to be a 2009 Camaro. Let us further say that the 2009 Camaro will indeed have an engine and suspension package that will be designed to outperform the 2002 models.
Is that not exciting enough in of itself? Whether or not they call it a Z28 will be immaterial so long as it makes tire smoke and gives the driver get sore cheek muscles from all the smiling they do.
Let us, for the sake of argument, say that there is no 2009 Z28.
Let us say that there is going to be a 2009 Camaro. Let us further say that the 2009 Camaro will indeed have an engine and suspension package that will be designed to outperform the 2002 models.
Is that not exciting enough in of itself? Whether or not they call it a Z28 will be immaterial so long as it makes tire smoke and gives the driver get sore cheek muscles from all the smiling they do.
Well, I guess. That is if all you are looking for is a generic, RWD, V8 car....which admittedly, is all some buyers may want. Hyundai could do one like that too.
But the marketing power for Camaro, of bundling a face melting suspension, huge brakes, a very agressive wheel/tire combo and a world class powertrain...with the heritage, brand equity and racing lineage of Z/28 is just too good to ignore.
12-26-2006, 12:43 PM
#47
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Orange County, NY
Posts: 24
wow...this has gotten into a pretty big thing....
y dont we get some money going in here....see whos right....
lol...no im j/k
but seriously...not taken sides....sh*t can happen....stuff can change anytime...maybe the 3rd cousin once removed married to the neighbor is right....then again....GM might just wake up one morning and be like...no we do need a Z28 (oh please i hope so)...
so yeah...im gonna play the waiting game and see what happens
y dont we get some money going in here....see whos right....
lol...no im j/k
but seriously...not taken sides....sh*t can happen....stuff can change anytime...maybe the 3rd cousin once removed married to the neighbor is right....then again....GM might just wake up one morning and be like...no we do need a Z28 (oh please i hope so)...
so yeah...im gonna play the waiting game and see what happens
12-26-2006, 02:23 PM
#49
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 515
It has been my understanding it has been a long debate on the top Camaro package name. It may be the fact that the top line performance of all Chevy car less the Vette are SS. So if they go SS it should not be a suprise.
First off the Z was not much more than a name on a loaded Camaro for years not the special racing package it origianly was. That is not to say it was a bad thing at the end but rather to say it was only a name or lable.
This may be better news for later as this opens the door for the Z to become what it was in the first place a special low volume performace model.
If the Camaro needs to make news and pump up the line in a few years what better way than to bring back a special model with an old name. Lets face it the Camaro is going to sell well and make a big splach when it hits the market. This gives them an option to use it later as a second punch.
As long as it kicks butt, is affordable and looks great they could call it a Z/14 for all I care. It's just a name not the sum of the parts.
Besides as we have already seen the design changed alot before last years concept. What was said no Z was planned but that is not to say Chevy claimed no Z for ever. There is a lot of heritage in the name and best to use it when needed and on the right parts. Let not just slap it on the first V8 they put out. Good marketing is going to be key on this car as is price. So don't bet all your money on your first hand your delt.
First off the Z was not much more than a name on a loaded Camaro for years not the special racing package it origianly was. That is not to say it was a bad thing at the end but rather to say it was only a name or lable.
This may be better news for later as this opens the door for the Z to become what it was in the first place a special low volume performace model.
If the Camaro needs to make news and pump up the line in a few years what better way than to bring back a special model with an old name. Lets face it the Camaro is going to sell well and make a big splach when it hits the market. This gives them an option to use it later as a second punch.
As long as it kicks butt, is affordable and looks great they could call it a Z/14 for all I care. It's just a name not the sum of the parts.
Besides as we have already seen the design changed alot before last years concept. What was said no Z was planned but that is not to say Chevy claimed no Z for ever. There is a lot of heritage in the name and best to use it when needed and on the right parts. Let not just slap it on the first V8 they put out. Good marketing is going to be key on this car as is price. So don't bet all your money on your first hand your delt.
12-26-2006, 02:34 PM
#50
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Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Stafford, Va
Posts: 455
Camaro V6 or V8
Camaro SS
Camaro Z/28
Seems to make sense to me.
12-26-2006, 02:57 PM
#51
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Oshawa - Home of the 5th-gen
Posts: 5,308
. My g/f's step-Dad works for GM here in Oshawa. He says (unrelated to Camaros) that the Ecotec engines in Cavaliers --> Cobalts, etc., are built by Toyota?! 
We were just talking about this yesterday during our Christmas visit 
. I acknowledged the Vibe/Matrix, which is a GM/Toyota partnership, but he said "no no, the engines in the Cavaliers too" 
. And he works for GM?!! 
In the case of this thread, I'm leaning towards the "no Z28 in the first year ..... Z28 to come later" theory
. That makes the original post somewhat accurate 
(in relation to the first year only 
).
12-26-2006, 02:57 PM
#52
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Chicagoland, IL
Posts: 1,397
Okay, Okay.
Let us, for the sake of argument, say that there is no 2009 Z28.
Let us say that there is going to be a 2009 Camaro. Let us further say that the 2009 Camaro will indeed have an engine and suspension package that will be designed to outperform the 2002 models.
Is that not exciting enough in of itself? Whether or not they call it a Z28 will be immaterial so long as it makes tire smoke and gives the driver get sore cheek muscles from all the smiling they do.
Let us, for the sake of argument, say that there is no 2009 Z28.
Let us say that there is going to be a 2009 Camaro. Let us further say that the 2009 Camaro will indeed have an engine and suspension package that will be designed to outperform the 2002 models.
Is that not exciting enough in of itself? Whether or not they call it a Z28 will be immaterial so long as it makes tire smoke and gives the driver get sore cheek muscles from all the smiling they do.
12-26-2006, 04:48 PM
#53
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 253
Exactly . My g/f's step-Dad works for GM here in Oshawa. He says (unrelated to Camaros) that the Ecotec engines in Cavaliers --> Cobalts, etc., are built by Toyota?! We were just talking about this yesterday during our Christmas visit . I acknowledged the Vibe/Matrix, which is a GM/Toyota partnership, but he said "no no, the engines in the Cavaliers too" . And he works for GM?!!
In the case of this thread, I'm leaning towards the "no Z28 in the first year ..... Z28 to come later" theory. That makes the original post somewhat accurate (in relation to the first year only ).
. My g/f's step-Dad works for GM here in Oshawa. He says (unrelated to Camaros) that the Ecotec engines in Cavaliers --> Cobalts, etc., are built by Toyota?! We were just talking about this yesterday during our Christmas visit . I acknowledged the Vibe/Matrix, which is a GM/Toyota partnership, but he said "no no, the engines in the Cavaliers too" . And he works for GM?!! In the case of this thread, I'm leaning towards the "no Z28 in the first year ..... Z28 to come later" theory
. That makes the original post somewhat accurate (in relation to the first year only ).You'd be surprised at the ammount of incorrect info floating around car companies..... (we aren't talking red herring info here...)
Then again... probably not.
12-26-2006, 08:45 PM
#54
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Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: nYc
Posts: 103
Exactly . My g/f's step-Dad works for GM here in Oshawa. He says (unrelated to Camaros) that the Ecotec engines in Cavaliers --> Cobalts, etc., are built by Toyota?! We were just talking about this yesterday during our Christmas visit . I acknowledged the Vibe/Matrix, which is a GM/Toyota partnership, but he said "no no, the engines in the Cavaliers too" . And he works for GM?!!
In the case of this thread, I'm leaning towards the "no Z28 in the first year ..... Z28 to come later" theory. That makes the original post somewhat accurate (in relation to the first year only ).
. My g/f's step-Dad works for GM here in Oshawa. He says (unrelated to Camaros) that the Ecotec engines in Cavaliers --> Cobalts, etc., are built by Toyota?! We were just talking about this yesterday during our Christmas visit . I acknowledged the Vibe/Matrix, which is a GM/Toyota partnership, but he said "no no, the engines in the Cavaliers too" . And he works for GM?!! In the case of this thread, I'm leaning towards the "no Z28 in the first year ..... Z28 to come later" theory
. That makes the original post somewhat accurate (in relation to the first year only ).I remember reading that Honda was/is helping GM build V-6 engines (or outright providing them the engines), and in turn GM shares their OnStar technology. Or something to that effect...it was a while ago...
12-26-2006, 09:46 PM
#55
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Statesboro, GA
Posts: 159
A few points
1) How long after the new mustang was released did it take for the GT-500 Cobras to come out? Quite a while if i remember correctly.....
2) I'm a GM man for life, but even i'll admit that they have made some questionable badging decisions recently (i.e. a Cobalt SS with no supercharger, Malibu SS, etc). So don't put it beyond them to "eff it up".
3) How many modern GM coupes have been INITIALLY released with more than 2 engine options?
Best case scenario the Z28 is brought back and is the top dog, i still cannot forsee them having it out first year.
1) How long after the new mustang was released did it take for the GT-500 Cobras to come out? Quite a while if i remember correctly.....
2) I'm a GM man for life, but even i'll admit that they have made some questionable badging decisions recently (i.e. a Cobalt SS with no supercharger, Malibu SS, etc). So don't put it beyond them to "eff it up".
3) How many modern GM coupes have been INITIALLY released with more than 2 engine options?
Best case scenario the Z28 is brought back and is the top dog, i still cannot forsee them having it out first year.
12-26-2006, 10:16 PM
#56
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Phoenix AZ
Posts: 157
Maybe.....just maybe.....GM has decided to use the Ford naming/marketing strategy from the Mudstain:
VERSION / MOTOR / NAME
Base / 240 HP V6 / Camaro
Step Up / 240 HP V6 / Camaro RS/LT (ala Ford "Delux" package)
Base V8 / 400 HP LS2-3? / Camaro SS (ala Mustang GT)
Top V8 / 450-500 HP LS9 / Camaro Z28 (Dropped 6-9 mos later as hype starts to fade)
I may be way off on the names and the versions, but I think that we can all agree that GM is going to "stage" the timing of Camaro to milk every last sale out of the platform. It is working for Ford, and there is no need to reinvent the marketing wheel.
Does anybody doubt that Ford couldn't have dropped the Shelby at the same time as the base model?
What about the new BOSS and BULLET models coming out? MILK it out and keep fresh versions coming until its time to refresh in 2 years. The 'Stang is getting a refresh around the time that the 'Maro shows up as well. I bet its another "retro" flavor (Maybe Mustang II?
)
I'm all for a prolonged attack by the general!
VERSION / MOTOR / NAME
Base / 240 HP V6 / Camaro
Step Up / 240 HP V6 / Camaro RS/LT (ala Ford "Delux" package)
Base V8 / 400 HP LS2-3? / Camaro SS (ala Mustang GT)
Top V8 / 450-500 HP LS9 / Camaro Z28 (Dropped 6-9 mos later as hype starts to fade)
I may be way off on the names and the versions, but I think that we can all agree that GM is going to "stage" the timing of Camaro to milk every last sale out of the platform. It is working for Ford, and there is no need to reinvent the marketing wheel.
Does anybody doubt that Ford couldn't have dropped the Shelby at the same time as the base model?
What about the new BOSS and BULLET models coming out? MILK it out and keep fresh versions coming until its time to refresh in 2 years. The 'Stang is getting a refresh around the time that the 'Maro shows up as well. I bet its another "retro" flavor (Maybe Mustang II?
) I'm all for a prolonged attack by the general!
12-27-2006, 02:37 AM
#58
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Chicagoland, IL
Posts: 1,397
Yea...it took us a while to figure that out, but that seems to be the way things are looking and what we expected/hoped for anyway. If this is the pattern we will see, I would be very happy with the releases spaced between base/SS/Z28 like that.
12-27-2006, 09:26 AM
#59
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Oakland, California
Posts: 9,710
I still want to know timing differential. 12-18 months and I'll wait. Longer than that, and I'll buy an SS convertible to start with, then trade it in for a new Z/28.
12-27-2006, 09:37 AM
#60
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Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Chicagoland IL
Posts: 16,179
So as far as how long after Camaro intro we'll see the Z/28...could be 12 months, 18 month, 24 months....
Last edited by Z284ever; 12-27-2006 at 10:02 AM.