PacerX

I'm posting them here because I've lost myself in the titanic thread made by the first look at the pictures.

I'd like this post to be about things other than "I like it" or "I don't like it"...

Little more thought and constructive stuff is the criteria here..



Fbodfather -
To me, it looks like it has a little bit of Cadillac A&S styling to it, so I may get there for the wrong reasons, but I agree with what you're saying here. It's not really retro - the creases are much too sharp for retro, and the car is much more angular.

Chevrolets TRADITIONALLY looked like Cadillacs with less "bling". It was no accident either. There was a traditional commonality there - not enough to hurt Cadillac's image, but enough to let the casual observer subconciously know they were related. I like it.



The first picture is also a "half & half", with one side of the car looking one way and the other looking another, and I haven't seen the other side yet. I'm guessing that's not an accident.



Exterior:

1) The front and rear fascias, as I see them, are going to be problematic. The panel split for the front fender to front fascia is usually done more like the way Grand Prix does it with the fender meeting the headlamps.

The reason that I'm concerned is that it looks like the coach joint for the Corvette (where the rear quarter meets the rear fascia) and that always looks just terrible... it never looks like it fits right, no matter what.

2) The front passenger side foglamp looks like a Photoshop job, because if it isn't one... it's just awful. Hey... could they sink it into the fascia like on a 4th gen??? Then you don't have to worry about flush or gap at all! Looks cool, way easy to do.

3) The hood gap and flush to the fenders and the front fascia are a nightmare with that type of design. It just never, ever, ever looks right, which is why most modern design curl the hood down to meet the front fascia. Then all you have to worry about is a vertical gap and not a gap and flush on FOUR different panels that are going to have to be adjusted.

4) If the front fascia and hood are actually going to look like that, you have to back all the gaps. Meaning that there is an extension in body color underneath the gap (NO EXPOSED FASTENERS THERE) so it doesn't look like a void and make any gap mismatch glaringly obvious. It doesn't work as well as other ways, but it that's the choice made for the interface, it's the best way to hide variation.


Interior:

1) Carrying the dash over into the door panels in that wide sweep is ALWAYS an issue because doors move and door panels are adjusted separately from the IP. Also, because the door gap and flush to the fenders involves moving the whole door around, any adjustment there messes up the adjustment of the IP to door trim.

2) Most people never notice a gap and flush issue from one side of the car to another... unless it has something to do with the dashboard - you're ALWAYS looking at the dashboard... so that fit to the door panel is critical and WILL be an issue unless a whole lot of effort is put in to avoiding a problem there. It may be better to design away from that condition than try to live with it. Think F4 hatchback fit here, and all the problems that gave getting a good fit from one side to the other.

3) The vents that are half-mooned into the IP and half-mooned into the door panel are begging for even more trouble. Think of it this way... now you have not only the dash, the doors, the fenders, and the door panels to contend with for fit... but you also have to throw in the IP and IP structure and the vent itself. That would be VERY tough to get right consistently.

4) Consider diving the glovebox even further under the IP please. The reason being that the gap and flush around the glovebox door is a tough adjustment, and is smack-dab in the line of sight of both the passenger and driver. Your other option is to underflush it into the IP intentionally so that the gap is invisible.

5) Please kill the hard plastic parts that look like loops for a crotch belt on the front seat cushion immediatly. They're hard, and folks have sensitive parts down there...

6) Square vents... round vents... might consider picking one and sticking with it instead of having two separate types.

7) I'm going to BEG GM to bring back the identification plate on the center console describing the engine, horsepower rating, etc... it's just too cool for words and both the Corvette and Camaro should have it. Maybe all the SS cars too... Betcha one time, JUST ONE TIME, of the owner getting to point at the plate and rub some unwashed Camry driver's nose in the fact that the Toyota clone bought a turd of an automobile gets you a repeat customer.

8) Don't be afraid of chrome. Real chrome, not that brushed-aluminum-sprayed-on-pseudo-metal-plastic stuff...

9) If someone took a hard look at a 1960's Impala, that would be a great thing. That IP was absolutely beautiful. The machine-turned aluminum was kind of busy looking, but wow... the radio bezel was a work of art. Go back to your classics for ideas. Regardless of the currently state of the industry, 40 years have passed since that interior was seen.

10) The steering wheel looks great. Don't let anyone pull the decorative features shown off of it, but at the same time you have to be very careful of fit and finish there - the driver will be looking at it all the time.



Those are the few things I can glean from a sketch. But there are a couple of things that surely have to be emphasized -

NO SHARP PARTING LINES ON STUFF PEOPLE PUT THEIR HANDS ON ALL THE TIME - like shifters and console latches and steering wheels and door pulls.

NO EXPOSED FASTENERS.

DO NOT ALLOW THE A PILLAR TO HEADLINER FIT TO SHOW A RAT-HOLE, EVER - it is right in the occupant's eyeline.

The A pillar must interface with the fritter on the windshield consistently. Don't forget this - having the A pillar wowing in and out relative to the fritter line looks awful from the inside.

While GM's at it, narrow up the fritter anyway. Big, wide areas of fritter on glass look bad.

The B pillar upper MUST be overflush to the B pillar lower. If the fit is off a little bit, you'll never see it that way.

Parting lines. Watch the parting lines carefully. They are invaribly ugly, but you have to have them somewhere. Where they are put is the key.

Chrome383Z

I agree. The Driverside looks real. The Passenger side looks photoshopped on. I'm betting on the Drivers side all the way around is what we will see come January.

Good Review PacerX.

CLEAN

I'm with you, that other thread is growing faster than I can read it, so I'll post my thoughts, albiet not in such technical terms, here instead. I tend to critique things more from a production car standpoint rather than slather praise on an unbuildable concept, so my thoughts are things I would change on the production version.

I've only seen three pix, pass front quarter, pass rear quarter, and a forward looking interior sketch, so I don't know if there are others.

The Front Quarter:
NICE. The mirrors are obviously silly, so theres still a question as to what production mirrors will look like, but thats no biggie. The front grill and headlights are nice. The foglights, or turn signals or whatever they are...not sure which one is better, but thats not a big thing for me. I like the wheel well flares without the '69 swoops, looks cleaner. I like the edgy overall look, while incorporating some curves and style. Excellent. I like the stance, I like the apparent size. I like the cowl induction hood. Basically the only thing I'd change on this view is to clean up the lower grille and foglights, get a real mirror, and thats it. AWESOME!

The Rear Quarter:
Hmmmmm. Ok, I like the greenhouse, perfect. The tail lights need work. I don't know what, but they're just not right. Also, the way the peaked fenders end up at a higher level than the middle of the trunk needs to be balanced out somehow, maybe with a C6-like spoiler/brake light. The license plate looks to be mounted too high, most cars these days has it lower in the bumper. The exhausts are waaaay too big, and the chopped top is strange looking, though it matches the tail lights, which are also strange looking. Round tips don't really look good on this car, it needs something more angular, and mounted lower. It's hard to see much of what the diffuser panel looks like. In summary, change every element of the rear end I'm sorry to say.

The Interior:
Nice. I like the use of color, the console mounted guages, the round speedo and tach, the chrome/aluminum accents, and the contrasting stitching. I dislike the combination of round and rectangular a/c vents, that looks strange. I would like to see a real dash too. This one has no hvac, lighting, or radio controls. I would like to see those in place to see if it disrupts the flow of the design. But overall, I'm liking the interior! Offer it in RED!

HAZ-Matt

That is what I think too.

Jason E

So you guys aren't the only ones who thought the other thread was moving faster than the speed of sound??

I agree with what Pacer said, in that it does have an A&S look to it. And he's right, there is not one blatant retro cue...it all just has some of a retro flavor to it. Its growing on me since I first saw it...but that back still has to go.

BTW, where has everyone seen interior shots? All I have seen is 3 exterior photos on C&G...

turbo96z28

CLEAN OUT YOUR PM BOX JASON!!!!!!


try going here:

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?t=414450

Jason E

Crap...damn PM box...that's the second time you've told me, too I applaud your effort at getting me to get off my lazy *** and clean that thing out

Its being cleaned now!!

turbo96z28

i won't bash you cause i know you're sick like me. check that link i posted, someone has the pics up in the lounge.

Jason E

I just did...its good that interior is a concept interior. There's a few cues I like, but if my biggest beef with the Mustang has always been/is the retro interior, that will undoubtedly be my biggest beef with the Camaro, too

Oh well, they do have a few years to clean it up anyway. Plus, there's always January. On that note, I'm going back to sleep...GD cold

Jason E

On a side note, its awesome to be able to even TALK about a 5th gen, and know that its as close to a reality as it can be, without actually BEING reality just yet

turbo96z28

it's the only thing that makes being home sick worth it

Z28Marcus

Finally got to see the pics... I'm not sure how to be constructive in my (-ve) critiscism that stems mostly from the fact that I've never like the stealth-bomber-esque Arts and Sciences look at all. I am quite dismayed that the A&S look has been applied to the Camaro.

I'm pretty bummed out now; I suppose it was naive of me to be hoping for something more akin to to Johhny G Machine's most recent and most excellent concept. I see very little of that in the picture that adorns the front page of CZ28.com. At the very least, I would at have preferred the leaked concept to have a more rounded look but that would make the car look too retro in the eyes of many here.

Too bad... still I guess there's still time for GM to tone down the A&S thing before release in 09. Here's hoping.