2010_5thgen

well see ladies.....well see. i doubt youll even admit it when your wrong anyways..... kinda like everyone who thought that 100% the ZL1 was gonna be called the Z28..... its all speculation and rumors ladies. lets not get our panties in a bunch....lets just speculate and dream until the day comes that everything is revealed........

96_Camaro_B4C

Alpha is out now. New Caddy ATS has been unveiled in Detroit. I believe I read that it is something like 10 inches shorter than the CTS. Also narrower, and the weight is given at 3400 lbs. (for the 4 cylinder model).

CTS weighs 3850 lbs in base trim, according to Cadillac's website. I think a six cylinder G8 was also a 3800-3900+ lb car.

I think the Alpha platform has promise. Also, for what it's worth, this was just posted in the future vehicles section. Not that I think an Alpha Camaro would look like this concept, but there is clearly some Alpha thinking going on at Chevy... This car is more of a 4 seater (like a BMW 1 Series) than a lower slung 2+2 like the Camaro, so the roofline is quite a bit different, but still...

jg95z28

Don't you think these concepts are more in line with the former Chevrolet Kappa based concepts that obviously don't have a platform for production now that Pontiac and Saturn are dead?

I realize Alpha is shorter and narrower than CTS (Sigma) and that's great. However narrower does not fit Camaro's image or history. Camaros have historically been wide road huggers.

I believe there is a place for an Alpha coupe/sedan/hatchback family of vehicles in Chevrolet's future. However, I don't necessarily feel (or believe) that they will be Camaros.

96_Camaro_B4C

Perhaps. But Kappa was not a FWD platform (like the Code 140S concept), and the red car happens to share the 109.3" wheelbase with the new ATS (according to specs given in the two press releases).

In any case, yes, depending on how flexible ATS is (in terms of range of widths and lengths, etc.), it may or may not be ideal for a low slung Camaro. I bet it could be done though.

Chewbacca

1) Look what we have now. As you are a longtime unabashed fan of the 5th gen, I suppose the 4000lb curb weights we currently enjoy do fit the Camaro's image, right?

In other words... (with regard to your width statement) so what?

Moreover....

2) You're judging the ATS in ATS trim. Drop Camaro sheetmetal on it with considerably more exaggerated / flared fenders. Add wider wheels.

"Road hugging" enough for you now?



Keep the faith.

jg95z28

So what? The majority of today's cars are heavier than their previous generation counterparts.

I'm not "judging" ATS. As I said previously, there is also the option of improving Zeta and taking some weight out.

People seem to forget...

Remember all the rumors of the 5th generation Camaro being based on a modified version of the then "hot new platform" called Kappa? Remember what happened? Camaro wouldn't fit and GM end up modifying Zeta instead.

History has a way of repeating itself.

Chewbacca

I remember. I remember thinking that was all a bunch of nonsense. Never bought it for a second. You simply can't stretch a chassis that far in any sort of economically feasible manner.

Alpha / ATS on the other hand, is the right size for a Camaro starting point...

ATS length - width: 183" - 71"

4th gen length - width: 193" - 74"
3rd gen length - width: 189" - 73"

As mentioned above.... I'm pretty sure I can find you that bit of extra width you crave with a set of slightly more curvaceous fenders.


You're right, it sometimes does.

Remember how bloated and big the second gen became?

What happened when the model was rebooted with the 3rd gen?

jg95z28

When I say "wider" I'm talking about "track" not flared fenders.

I wouldn't mind a car 90% the size of the 5th Gen, however I don't believe Alpha is set up to meet all the right proportions. What we'd end up getting is a narrower car that is only 200-300 lbs lighter and almost as long as the current version.

Although I am kind of curious to see what the Alpha coupe looks like.

Apples and oranges.

The 3rd gen was downsized because emissions standards had sucked all the power out of the small block Chevy and GM needed to downsize the Camaro to keep it competitive. It grew again for the 4th gen to meet modern safety standards and was killed in 2002 because the platform would no longer support the next safety standard update.

Chewbacca

Fair enough.


ATS track width F/R: 59.5 / 60.9

(NOTE: sources vary with some of these)
1st gen track width F/R: 58.7 / 60.5
2nd gen track width F/R: 61.3 / 60.5
3rd gen track width F/R: 60.7 / 60.6
4th gen track width F/R: 63.7 / 64.1

The ATS has 8 inch wide wheels. Throw a set of wider wheels on there (something I'd hope a Camaro would have anyway) and you have the track width you're looking for....and then some. Heck, just different backspacing could take care of a lot of it.

I really, honestly fail to see how this car / chassis could not offer proper Camaro proportions.

But then I'm not hopelessly enamored with the 5th gen / Zeta car either.

Z28Wilson

"Only" 200-300 pounds? For my money, that 300 pounds would put Camaro right back into the sweet spot of a modern pony car in terms of heft.

Five to seven years ago I don't think anyone would have been in love with the idea of a Zeta (i.e. full size Aussie sedan)-based Camaro.

The proportions would be all wrong, you'd say.

The Monaro/GTO wouldn't make a good Camaro even if the sheet metal was drastically re-worked, you'd say.

Hmm, things kind of changed (for many people) did they not?

IMHO the writing is on the wall for Zeta. If it could be dramatically re-engineered to drop a few hundred pounds, great - but why spend the time, money and resources to do that when you already have Alpha? Bottom line, if you set the bar for the "perfect" Camaro in a spot that's 90% the size of the 5th Gen, I suspect the Alpha could probably be tweaked to get to that spot using a lot less time and effort than Zeta. But that's just speculation.

SSCamaro99_3

GT1 Corvette C6.R
GT2 Corvette C6.R

Homologation Model
Corvette Z06
Corvette ZR1

Engine
7.0-liter LS7.R
2009: 6.0-liter LS7.R

2010: 5.5-liter GM V8

Horsepower
590
2009: 470 (-120)

2010: TBD

Torque (lb-ft)
640
2009: 535 (-105)

2010: TBD

Intake Air Restrictor (mm)
30.6
28.6 (-2.0)

Bore diameter (in)
4.180
Same

Crankshaft stroke (in)
3.875
3.32 (-0.555)

A little hard to read. The original C5.R 7.0 was based on the LS series, but had tons of differences. C5.R stuff was all the rage for awhile becasue it was the most reliable way to get big cubes, but all the custom work to get it in production vehicles was a pain. Even the 7.0 based off the LS7 had significant differences. To say that the 7.0 race motor directly begat the 7.0 road motor would be false.

MP

Here's the original little blurb that started this whole thing, if anyone is interested: Confirmed: 6th gen Camaro for MY 2016.

Afew things:

1) There will be no re-engineering of Zeta. After the 5th gen, Zeta is done in NA.

2) Considering how Alpha has been on on/off/on/off/on program for the past six years, GM's engineers pulled this one out, big time, in order to get mass out of the architecture. Under 3400 pounds for a fully contented, Cadillac sedan is pretty remarkable. The V6/ six speed auto will be barely over 3400.

3) This bodes well for a 6th gen Camaro. The 6.2L, LT1 version will certainly be under 3500 pounds.

Fbodfather

Once again I caution that this is all - ALL - conjecture.

And as for weight: We have a very good reason to worry about weight - take a look at the CAFE standards from here to 2025..........

Another thought:

GM Design created a "Camaro Concept" for NAIAS in January of 2006. Regardless of where you yourself liked what they saw, the reality is that it captivated the world. (....no, I'm not exaggerating) We recieved a very strong message from the public: "BUILD IT AND DON'T CHANGE A THING ABOUT IT!"


..............well - we did build it and changed very little. (in fact, if someone proposed changing something that would alter the appearance of the car, they rec'd an appt witih none other than Mr. Lutz....)

Did we do the right thing? Well ...........look at the sales figures -- and also look at the sales figures versus the competition. I'd say we did....and I'd say that it certainly makes a successful case for a 6th generation Camaro.

Does everyone love the new Camaro? No - but anyone who drives one will attest - nearly three years later and they still cause people to stop and stare...

Gripenfelter

Oh looky, I found a pic of the next Camaro. Guaranteed to grab buyers from Dodge and Ford.

2010_5thgen

Yet another article on a 5.5 motor for the vette.....either these editors are as crazy as i am, or maybe were right!
2014 Chevrolet Corvette C7 Spy Photos – News – Car and Driver