Motor Trend: GT500 vs SS drag race
07-08-2009, 01:01 PM
#16
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I said the same thing about the Mustang GT when I saw the Car & Driver article between the 4.9 zero-to-sixty sprint of the GT versus the 4.8 time of the Camaro SS. 
Nope.
Track Packs come with Pirelli P-Zeros.
Shelby's I believe come with F1s
...... and void your warranty on their SS to kingdom come, and wasting that $30K-plus you just spent when something blows, breaks, or misfires.
I could buy a used '93 Z28, invest 10 grand, and go whipping up on new Camaro SSes..... but the point here is buying a car out the showroom, and running it stock.
Camaro SS is certainly the better buy, but the GT500 is the rarer car, generates more intrest, and will retain more of it's value.
However, like the planned Z28, these type of cars have zilch to do with value. It's all about bragging rights and having a special car you enjoy.
FWIW: The Camaro Z28 would have been very similar to the GT500 in cost, performance, & weight.
Well said. 
From a strictly performance value, I'd say the Camaro SS is good but not an "undeniable incredible" value.
The GT with the 3.73 axle package is only $495 (includes the axle, dual piston brakes, and a reprogramed traction control) and it's a mere 10th of a second behind the Camaro SS and comes in at $29,340 including destination versus $31,040 for the 1SS. Unless you plan to frequently run in excess of 145 mph or you frequent a 1/4 mile (instead of an 1/8 mile) drag strip every week, the performance question becomes "Is the difference worth paying an extra $1,770?"
From a total package value, yes the SS has IRS (for an extra $1,770), but you are obviously paying for it... and the bigger, roomier Challenger R/T if you forgo the $995 manual (yea, I know.. I wouldn't either) it comes in at $30,945 ($95 cheaper).
The REAL value is the Camaro in the V6 version which is by every single measure, a complete, unequaled, screaming steal!!!
A base aggresive-looking Camaro, well equpted, rear drive, 6 speed manual, IRS, 300 horse V6 0-60 in six flat....all is only $23,040 delivered!
Add the $470 twenty inch rims and for just $23,880 the computer lets you run all the way up to 157 mph!!
There simply isn't another car on the planet that gives you that for under 24 grand!
Camaro SS? Yea... it's an OK value.
Camaro V6? That's a modern frigging miracle of automotive value!
Nope.
Track Packs come with Pirelli P-Zeros.
Shelby's I believe come with F1s
Yeah - while the GT500 may have won the fight. The SS is definitely the better buy.
For the 13K difference in Price - a SS owner could get a good Supercharger kit (installed)for the LS3, 21 inch Wheels(better traction), and good after market Springs & Shocks(handling) to allow the Camaro to slay the GT500 on the track or the road.
For the 13K difference in Price - a SS owner could get a good Supercharger kit (installed)for the LS3, 21 inch Wheels(better traction), and good after market Springs & Shocks(handling) to allow the Camaro to slay the GT500 on the track or the road.
I could buy a used '93 Z28, invest 10 grand, and go whipping up on new Camaro SSes..... but the point here is buying a car out the showroom, and running it stock.
Camaro SS is certainly the better buy, but the GT500 is the rarer car, generates more intrest, and will retain more of it's value.
However, like the planned Z28, these type of cars have zilch to do with value. It's all about bragging rights and having a special car you enjoy.
FWIW: The Camaro Z28 would have been very similar to the GT500 in cost, performance, & weight.
Lets not really get into this battle.
Honestly why buy a new camaro for 50k when you could pick up a LS1 Camaro for 6 to 8k and dump 42k in it to make it a whole world of faster?
Why do people buy the Camaro? Because its the car they like and want.
Why do people buy the Mustang? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Should i keep going?
Honestly why buy a new camaro for 50k when you could pick up a LS1 Camaro for 6 to 8k and dump 42k in it to make it a whole world of faster?
Why do people buy the Camaro? Because its the car they like and want.
Why do people buy the Mustang? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Should i keep going?
The GT with the 3.73 axle package is only $495 (includes the axle, dual piston brakes, and a reprogramed traction control) and it's a mere 10th of a second behind the Camaro SS and comes in at $29,340 including destination versus $31,040 for the 1SS. Unless you plan to frequently run in excess of 145 mph or you frequent a 1/4 mile (instead of an 1/8 mile) drag strip every week, the performance question becomes "Is the difference worth paying an extra $1,770?"
From a total package value, yes the SS has IRS (for an extra $1,770), but you are obviously paying for it... and the bigger, roomier Challenger R/T if you forgo the $995 manual (yea, I know.. I wouldn't either) it comes in at $30,945 ($95 cheaper).
The REAL value is the Camaro in the V6 version which is by every single measure, a complete, unequaled, screaming steal!!!
A base aggresive-looking Camaro, well equpted, rear drive, 6 speed manual, IRS, 300 horse V6 0-60 in six flat....all is only $23,040 delivered!
Add the $470 twenty inch rims and for just $23,880 the computer lets you run all the way up to 157 mph!!
There simply isn't another car on the planet that gives you that for under 24 grand!
Camaro SS? Yea... it's an OK value.
Camaro V6? That's a modern frigging miracle of automotive value!
Last edited by guionM; 07-08-2009 at 01:06 PM.
07-08-2009, 01:11 PM
#17
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where can you get 20" rims for $470 on a LS camaro?
07-08-2009, 02:01 PM
#18
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Specifically (according to chevrolet.com):
V6 Auto: 52.2 / 47.8
V6 Manual: 51.8 / 48.2
V8 Auto: 52.2 / 47.8
V8 Manual: 51.8 / 48.2
07-08-2009, 02:32 PM
#19
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Notice in the test the SS was ahead at 60 but HP took over on the top end and despite the close ET the trap speed was there for the GT500.
This video illistrates this point of traction and launch vs. hp better than most.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZlGMX8G3B4
07-08-2009, 07:17 PM
#20
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Wider tires do not improve straight line traction. If you held pressure and compound equal the wider tire would end up with a contact patch that is shorter in the direction of longitudinal acceleration which decreases the traction. It does help for lateral acceleration. But, if your wider tire has a better compound then it could certainly improve your launch.
07-08-2009, 11:01 PM
#21
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--->edit<--- on an unrelated note, there won't be to many SS vs. GT500 races this year, Ford is supposedly only producing around 2000 GT500s for MY10 --->edit<---
Last edited by bossco; 07-08-2009 at 11:08 PM.
07-09-2009, 08:19 AM
#22
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I will stick to my "undeniable performance value" statement.....We are talking V8 perfromance....I think the car (SS) is cheap. The GT mustang even with the big discounts that Ford dealers will allocate soon is a good performer but a bit long in tooth. Performance is not all 1/4 mile and 0-60. Performance is the overall package.
IRS and 6 speed, LS3 and great mileage on the hwy and the well excuted interior with dozens of cues off the 69 with looks that just kill.....
That's a real performance value. Sure the V6 is a screaming deal but I never even considered it. I hope they sell tonnes of V6's to keep the V8 programs progressing and improving....
If the SS is not a screaming deal then the GT500 is a terrible deal. Of course the GT500 will be rarer...Guess why?? It's old looking and it's a LOT more cash....Makes the SS the undeniable OVERALL performance value of the decade.
IRS and 6 speed, LS3 and great mileage on the hwy and the well excuted interior with dozens of cues off the 69 with looks that just kill.....
That's a real performance value. Sure the V6 is a screaming deal but I never even considered it. I hope they sell tonnes of V6's to keep the V8 programs progressing and improving....
If the SS is not a screaming deal then the GT500 is a terrible deal. Of course the GT500 will be rarer...Guess why?? It's old looking and it's a LOT more cash....Makes the SS the undeniable OVERALL performance value of the decade.
07-09-2009, 12:37 PM
#24
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"Performance value" means the car is a screaming bargain guys....looks, speed and finally very high levels of sophistication and chassis engineering...we all know this ....dont we?? BFTB....Bang For The BUCK...
Example: my best buddy has a new Rear drive infiniti G37....OMG he cant stop talking about the fact that he wished he had ordered an SS....
and on and on...Not just Mustang vs Camaro in the world....
Mustang is old ...Camaro is new and thrilling....What about Camaro vs the world of nice coupes out there.....BFTB...plain and simple....
Example: my best buddy has a new Rear drive infiniti G37....OMG he cant stop talking about the fact that he wished he had ordered an SS....
and on and on...Not just Mustang vs Camaro in the world....
Mustang is old ...Camaro is new and thrilling....What about Camaro vs the world of nice coupes out there.....BFTB...plain and simple....
07-09-2009, 12:55 PM
#25
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What if I don't like the looks? Is that not subjective? What if I like to autocross? Is that not something that might go into my "bargain" definition?
Sorry your best buddy isn't happy with his car. I'd absolutely chose an SS over an Infinity any day (based on my wants and biases).
Again - what is a great value to one may or may not be to the other.
Sorry your best buddy isn't happy with his car. I'd absolutely chose an SS over an Infinity any day (based on my wants and biases).
Again - what is a great value to one may or may not be to the other.
07-09-2009, 01:03 PM
#26
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Maybe for you but the 5th gen just does not do it for me...the fourth gen and early second gen are miles a head in the looks department for my taste ... when my forth gen Z28 was bone stock it ran 12.96 @ 109 mph ... the times the 5th gens are putting up do not excite me either...espically for the money spent ... I do not consider them a good return for the money ... definately not a "performance value" unless paying alot and going slow is what you are looking for...maybe the 6th gen will be better "performance value". I would rather purchse a fourth gen and spend $10K or less on it and have a less expensive car that kicks the crap out of the 5th gen ..oh wait a minute that is what I'm already doing...
Last edited by Vette Pro; 07-09-2009 at 01:05 PM.
07-09-2009, 05:13 PM
#27
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Hey, it's not our fault Ford brought a knife to a gunfight. The simple truth is you can buy a 426-horsepower Camaro for the same money as a 315-horsepower Mustang. In fact, order a GT Premium with the TrackPack -- the only way to get the GT500-inspired suspension upgrades, 3.73 rear axle, dual-piston front calipers, recalibrated stability control system, plus the 19-inch wheels and tires that make the 2010 Mustang such a blast through the twisties -- and you'll pay about 1500 bucks more than you would for a 1SS-spec Camaro, which comes standard with Pirelli tires, Brembo brakes, a six speed manual transmission, and a 21st-century rear suspension.
Chevrolet Camaro SS Ford Shelby GT500 Rear Three Quarter
CLICK TO VIEW GALLERY
Look at the price, look at the market positioning: The Mustang GT's logical rival is the faster, more powerful, more refined Camaro SS. End of argument.
Chevrolet Camaro SS Ford Shelby GT500 Rear Three Quarter
CLICK TO VIEW GALLERY
Look at the price, look at the market positioning: The Mustang GT's logical rival is the faster, more powerful, more refined Camaro SS. End of argument.
07-10-2009, 07:56 AM
#28
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The same site tested the CTS-V against the BMW M5.
The CTS-V, by just 3800 rpm unleashing all 551 pound-feet upon the rear tires, required a more judicious foot at launch but managed an even quicker sprint to 60: just 4 seconds flat. That advantage extended only slightly in the quarter mile, the M5 running in 12.5 seconds at 115.3 mph, the CTS-V needing just 12.3 seconds at 117.0 mph.
Curb weights
CTS 3,874# (automatic, 3.6L Direct Injection)
Camaro LT 3728#
CTS-V 4,222 lbs. (manual) 4,255 lbs. (automatic) 4,292 as tested in the article
GT500 3903 in the article.
So it might be safe to estimate that the Z/28 would have weighed more than the GT500, but less than the CTS-V. And also that it would have performed better than the CTS-V due to about a 150# lower curb weight. Of course, the Camaro Z/28 may have been detuned a bit compared to the more expensive CTS-V, but we don't know by how much?
07-10-2009, 07:58 AM
#29
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Wider tires do not improve straight line traction. If you held pressure and compound equal the wider tire would end up with a contact patch that is shorter in the direction of longitudinal acceleration which decreases the traction. It does help for lateral acceleration. But, if your wider tire has a better compound then it could certainly improve your launch.
