maro z28

In the May 2007 issue of Hot Rod magazine it states the 2009 camaro will have MacPherson struts with double wishbone front suspension and a multilink IRS. I'm looking for pics or link to the setups. I'd like to see how these setups are situated and any articles on how they perform in different situations. Thanks!

Z/28lover

Here are some pics of the suspension setup, im not sure how entirely accurate they are. Pretty sure they are off of a Zeta Holden.

HOWEVER, to be honest, i cant even remember where i got them, i know they were on this forum somewhere.

But here you go!

maro z28

Thanks but with the front suspension being all black against a grey background I can't make out anything. Where are the upper a arms? It's suppost to be a double wishbone. I can't even tell if those are lower a arms I'm looking at. Thanks, though. Anyone else?

GM LS-X

Here are better ones (JPG)of the front suypension:

(171K)
(951K)
(951K)
(981K)

As for durability: watch the whole thing:

search for "Billion" to see the rest of them.

As for Performance: We'll have to wait for Top Gear (this year, they allready had the Vauxhall version in the studio). Just don't tell Clarkson it'll underpin an american car

CalicoJack

A Macpherson strut type suspension doesn't have a double wishbone arrangement. It may have a lower A arm, or wishbone, (but in this case it has more of a trailing link setup) but not an upper. More info here for your enjoyment - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macpherson_strut - if you care to read up. I'm still not happy about a strut front in the fifth gen, but oh well, I guess I'll be happy that my 27 year old Camaro has a better front suspension design than hte fifth gen does.

CalicoJack

The double wishbone front suspension design is generally considered to be superior to the Macpherson strut type for performance applications. The only advantages to Mac are typically lower cost, more compact in terms of space used, and are generally lower weight. The double A-arm offers greater adjustability and better control of vehicle dynamics. Of course, since you're so smart, I'm sure you knew that right?

Z/28lover

And do you realize that more than just raw performance comes into play when designing a suspension that will have to be suitable for 150,000 vehicles a year. And yes, expense does come into play here, the fact that GM will need to make a great car while still keeping costs down is essential, unless you want to see the car get wiped off the face of the earth again.

Not everyone wants a ***** to the wall suspension, and while I agree with you that it is superior in some performance aspects and this IS a performance car. I DO NOT agree with the fact that you are saying your 27 year old camaro has a "superior" design.

Put a new 5th gen and your 1980 car on a track, and we will see who has the superior suspension setup.

The simple fact that you consider your 1980 car to be superior to something that you have never even seen is just IGNORANT. So until you can see underneath an actual Zeta, and see the production camaro at work, you shouldnt criticize.

Chocolate Apocalypse

If the previous generations are any indication I'm glad they are going to struts. My '92 RS handled so much better than both of my '99 Zs. 4th gen non-SS cars felt like they were on their tip toes going around corners.

2lane69

Hmmm...if struts are so bad, I wonder why the BMW's have so much success in the handling department with theirs?

I'm sure there are lots of 2nd gen Camaro's driving around that many would consider to be superior handling and riding than any BMW 3 series....or maybe not.

I welcome the struts in the 5th gen, maybe out of the 6 f-bodies I've owned, this one might actually come close to giving me the driving pleasure and handling I've come enjoy after owning a couple of Bimmers.

CalicoJack

Apparently, you do agree...

I guess I wasn't aware I had to see a fifth gen to know that in terms design, an a-arm suspension is a better performance design that a Mac Strut...

Not exactly sure where I stated the leaf spring rear on my car was superior to the IRS on the 5th, thus giving my car a better overall suspension set up, but seeing how I enjoy auto X-ing my car, I would enjoy track time of any kind. However, on the track is exactly where the double wishbone shines, with better control of the the camber curve, roll center, etc...

None of this has anything to do with which design is better. At best you could make an argument that the above issues dictate which is more practical in this case, but not better.

CalicoJack

Hmm, I guess that's why I see all of those Mac strut F1 cars. I guess that's why when Porsche designed the Carrera GT, they dumped the Mac's and went with double a-arm. I guess that's why the Corvette uses Mac..., oh wait, nevermind.

Maybe, but if they knew anything about suspension DESIGN, they would acknowledge that double a-arm is a better performance suspension.

2lane69

Because we're talking about street cars here....not race cars.

I would hardly compare a Carrera GT or F1 car to the likes of a street driven car that has to be cost effective and practical.

I will add for discussions sake that I sold my Lotus Esprit (considered my many to be one of the top handling cars ever made) for my M3, precisely because the M3 handled considerably better on all surfaces, whether it was on the track or the street, without nearly the compromises that defined the Esprit. The M3 had the Dinan lowering springs and Koni Struts up front and shocks in the rear. The Esprit had Sachs coilovers. Both had 17" tires.

If the new Camaro can handle anywhere near my M3, we'll have a winner.....I think the BMW M3 proves that a MacPherson strut type suspension can do everything it needs to do.

Silver2009

Struts have always been considered a poorer choice for performance. On a strut suspension it's very difficult to maintan geometry without a lot of design work/maintenance-alignments. Case in point, crushed strut busings on our GTOs.

BMW has done a fantastic job of harnessing the strut, but they are really the only auto maker to take it to another level. They do that through a number of complimentary (add-on) designs that increase cost.

Struts were intially all about saving dollars. Yes, the Short arm Long arm of the 4th gen as a superior design to the strut, but that design came out in the 50s.

Whatever the 5th gen has, I'm convinced that it will outhandle all previous gens, and more importantly a certain pony car over at Ford!

CalicoJack

No, but since my original point was which is the better DESIGN, not which is more practical, it is a perfectly valid argument, oh and you conveniently left out the most affordable car I mentioned.

Is where you are coming from either a). Mac strut is better than double a-arm (which it's not), or b). Mac Strut is more cost effective and/or design friendly for this application (which in this case it may be since Zeta was based on a previous design that used Mac's) while providing adequate performance? Cause I'm pretty sure that my point way back in post #5 was that it's a shame that the 5th gen is going to be using a less performance oriented design. Oh, and I'm pretty sure I mentioned one of the vehicles I own, which does have double a-arms, has been a daily driver, handles very well, and I can guarantee I paid for very much on my own.

My point is, the above fact doesn't change the fact that Mac Struts are inferior in design to double a-arms, regardless of whether you want to end the discussion or not.

CalicoJack

Well said on all points.