notsonic

the genesis is pretty cool. the styling is a little bit bland, but not bad at all. i dont know about the performance, but the size is just about right. i wouldnt mind it a few inches smaller in every direction. its still 10" less than the camaro and a few skinnier. same height though.

wasnt the 1st gen a sport compact/small car compared to others when it was released? i feel like the entire auto industry started making smaller cars while the camaro stayed the same size.

91Z28350

Hmm, I guess I must be out of touch. I like the size of the Camaro, I have no desire for a Cobalt sized car. The Solstice coupe is a neat looking car, but not one I would have bought. But then again, I am not buying a $35K+ car to make into a track/strip car.

boxerperson

I firmly believe that the vehicle is as light as they could possibly make it given what they were working with, and that it will be a fun car.

With that said, I hope next time they work with a compact chassis, not a full size sedan one.

Pruettfan

I started this discussion and I am finished with it. Lots of complaining and not much grasp on the engineering challanges faced by the manufactuers. My data shows that the Camaro is about what other cars weigh. I am looking forward to owning one and will enjoy it. In fact I may add some lead just to **** some of the guys on here off:-)

As stated here several times the proof is in the final product. The folks at GM are convinced that the Camaro will out perform all competitors and I assume they would not say this unless they can back it up. What more can you ask for?

nexus6

Slappy3243

Exactly. I like the Mustang and surely have nothing against it but the days of the solid axle are over in my opinion (unless you drag race it often). I want a comfortable, yet stiff ride. I don't want the whole car to feel every bump that the rear tires hit because of the live axle. My F-body is a blast to drive but having the *** wobble like that is not fun. My GTO is so much more enjoyable to daily drive because of the IRS and smooth ride.

So just the fact that the new Camaro has an IRS setup is going to add some weight but I think it is worth it for the improved ride and handling and make it a more comfortable daily driver and a very capable drag racer.

teal98

Btw, responding to this part specifically, I think there are a couple of issues. One is that we're benefiting from hindsight now, which makes it easier. But even if you were saying this 5 years ago, the other issue is that none of us really have the insight to debate whether the Solstice/Sky decision to use a backbone frame instead of a unibody was good. I mean, we can look at the Miata and say the unibody is lighter, but we don't have good data on how much cost or time it would have taken to do the Solstice/Sky as a unibody. Well, maybe you do, but I haven't seen it

So this part is like armchair quarterbacking. Which is fine. But it's not the same as being inside the huddle.

teal98

Hypothetical question to you and Dan.

If GM had spent the billion or three for a platform that was an inch or two narrower and 10 inches shorter (i.e. roughly C-G35 sized), and had built a Camaro on it that was 3750 instead of 3860 pounds, would you still be complaining?

'Cause I look at the C63, which has a monster 450/450 engine, is exactly the size you're asking for, and tests out at around 3900 pounds. I look at the G37 with its 330/270 and most of them test out at 3700+ (R&T's was 3750).

You and Dan seem to be awfully confident that there's an easy 300-400 to lose by anteing up for an Alpha. Under interrogation though, it seems pretty clear that it's pretty much just guessing or hopeful optimism.

I could easily see GM spending another billion five and you two are still complaining.

Z284ever

Yes. But less.

teal98

I believe you.

Dan Baldwin

For a while I had both a 4th gen Z28 and a 1st-gen 240SX. My ideal Camaro would basically be a wider (but NO taller and little if any longer!) 240SX with an LS engine, and Camaro styling.

Dan Baldwin

I believe I have a decent grasp of the engineering challenges. I am a vehicle design and structures engineer and I have been 100% responsible for suspension geometry, wheelbase, primary structures for a vehicle on the market today. There are a lot of GM apologists who want to believe that it is simply impossible to make a reasonably not-too-overweight V8 rwd/irs car. This is not the case, it absolutely *IS* possible.

That is not an engineering analysis, that's just saying that it's OK to be too heavy because everything else is. But like Momma used to say, if all your friends went and jumped off a cliff, would you do it too?!

To me there's a lot more to enjoying a car than being able to point to numbers in a magazine and saying "look, mine's faster!". Lighter weight is MORE FUN TO DRIVE. What more could I ask for? I'm asking for a LOT LESS!

Dan Baldwin

To anyone who thinks about such things as global oil supply (plateu) and demand (rapidly rising), and global CO2 (not to get into that here, but regardless of whether you think it's a problem it will become more of a factor) it has been clear that the world would face increasing fuel prices and that the focus in the US market would *HAVE* to shift from bigger/more-powerful to more-efficient. My point was made years ago that a bigger/heavier Camaro would NOT fly. I was. Whatever time (1-3 years?) it would have taken, it would have been WORTH it to have a lighter Sol/Sky *AND* a platform for MULTIPLE other lighter-weight rwd/irs cars.

Dan Baldwin

I'm not saying they should have spent more money. I'm saying they should have made Kappa more versatile and skipped Zeta altogether. Aside from cost, would I have complained about a 3750 lb. Camaro? What do you think?! 3750 is still hugely overweight. 3600 is overweight. 3400 would have been acceptable, but they should've targeted 3200 or better (and of course lighter is better!).
As for length and width, I'm more concerned about HEIGHT! Length in particular doesn't really tell the story of SIZE. You could just about park a 4th gen under the outside envelope of an '05+ Mustang. The Mustang is a BIGGER car, but it is shorter lengthwise.

Camaro shouldn't weigh as much as a 2-door luxury boat. The original G35 weighed 3450 lb., the new one bulked up quite a bit, yet another automaker taking yet another step in exactly the wrong direction... Just because everybody's doing it, that don't make it RIGHT! Or smart. As for power levels, give me 300hp stock and a much lighter-weight car. If I want more power I can go and get it. But it's next to impossible to "add light weight"! I'd *MUCH* rather start with an underpowered car than start with a grossly overweight one.

I've never mentioned anteing up for an "Alpha", indeed I don't know what an "Alpha" is. They should've made Kappa reconfigurable and made a whole LINE of smaller rwd cars. That's what I've thought since Solstice got the go-ahead.

I don't think they would have had to spend that much more money to fully develop Kappa, and they would have gotten a LOT more revenue out of a LINE of cars than they will be able to get out of a single 2-seat roadster configuration that is overweight and has next-to-no storage space compared to the competition.

95firehawk

Why? Because you and maybe 10 to 15 other people on this board thinks it's too heavy? Look at how many people are on this board compared to the number of "chicken little's" there are. Even here, on a forum comprised of people who are far more "in the know" than the average consumer, you make up a very small percentage of the population. IF the car doesn't succeed it's not going to be because of weight but more from the consumer's economic standpoint. In that case all of the cars in that segment are going to take a hit, not just the Camaro.

Do you really think that all of these manufacturer's are doing this by choice? BMW and Mercedes can't even get it done while charging twice as much.

This is purely a statement of personal opinion. I think that all of this arguing isn't solely about the weight of the car. To me its seems more like a few egos were hurt because GM didn't build the car that they personally wanted. The fact is the car you guys describe isn't and has never been the Camaro.