MauriSSio

it is actually, and whats funnier is that this boat weighs roughly the same as the lil camaro!
I have something to make up for the weight though, theyre called cubic inches!

99SilverSS

The Camaro is what it is. Heavier than we and GM probably wanted, sure. Some of us can justify it because of content and knowing that it was a Zeta Camaro or none at all.

Obviously some will write it off based on curb weight alone.

We've had this debate several times already. I'll hold final judgement until the car is on sale and after I've driven it. Then if I feel that the weight is too high and won't deliver and what my agenda is for the price I'll get something else. If it does I'll probably buy one.

Bob Cosby

It should be noted that this thread was NOT started by one of those "vocal minority" folks. Rather, it appears to be the musings of one of those in the "quiet majority" who is once again whining about the "vocal minority".

Interesting.

And I wonder what my "arbitrary" weight number is? Gotta think about that one....maybe I'll start "freeweightnumber.com".

95firehawk

It gets kinda hard to post any thread on this site when you've got 5 or so crybabies who won't grasp onto the fact that all cars are heading this way. I can understand Jason's frustration.

PacerX

As a side note...

A Solstice GXP Coupe is looking kinda attractive as a drag car if it actually does get the 300hp motor. 3000ish pounds, 300hp, should be relatively easy to mod and a relatively robust drivetrain because of the factory forced induction.

Aaron91RS

One car company goes retro they all go retro. One raises the belt line they all raise the belt line.
One adds weight, they all add weight.
It's just keeping with the status quo. Predictable if anything.
Tomorrow when someone else comes out with the new fad, everyone will jump ship to it.
Being in the me too crowd is 'safe'


As for any rules and regulations, your like the biggest companies in the US.
You have lobbyists and 'contributions' to all these politicains.
Heck you have a UAW that instead of fighting with maybe you could mobilize and have them all call their congressman telling him they oppose whatever BS CAFE etc type bill is coming up. A few hundred thousand voters telling a politician not to vote for something tends to have an effect if said politician likes to keep his job.

PacerX

The market is taking over the role CAFE had last year.

In other words, gas prices themselves will force fuel economy onto the OEM's because customers aren't willing to swallow the extra cost for a car that doesn't get good fuel economy at this time. It's already started...

Mustang sales are off nearly 50% year over year...

That oughta be VERY sobering to lots of folks.




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gtjeff

$12,000 Saturn Ion's had mostly plastic body panels until 2007, so it couldnt have been that expensive.

PacerX

In part, it comes down to the coefficient of thermal expansion for plastics not allowing the gaps to be as tight as the market currently demands as a demonstration of "build quality".

Plastic requires larger gaps than steel. Furthermore, plastic is categorically more expensive than steel on a piece cost basis for body panels and traditionally doesn't paint all that well.

An argument can be made that the tooling bill for plastic is lower though... which generally makes it well suited to lower volume applications (like Corvette) where tooling investment is the #1 enemy.




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GTOJack

The weight of the Challenger and Camaro has put Ford in a PERFECT position to slam dunk the competition with the next gen Mustang. If GM wants to borrow my 08 Bullitt to see which way the next gen Mustang is headed, come and get it.

DvBoard

Where the hell does all the weight come from? How much does the body etc. weigh? I've seen pictures, and i just can't figure it out.

DvBoard

Just cause all cars are headed this way does NOT mean it's a good thing. Why won't you understand that?

teal98

The UAW does exactly this. But they are clustered in just a few states, and there's only a significant number in Michigan. That's why John Dingell, a Democrat from Michigan has been a ally of the automakers in these concerns.

Pruettfan

The weight comes from several requirements like side impact, front impact standards. Addition of systems like airbags. Lots of it comes from the use of modern platforms that have to be adaptable to a variety of cars when you are building 5 cars off of a single platform you cannot make a change to the platform for one car that doesn't effect the others.

On the Mustang comment above. HP sells cars a heck of alot quicker than a few hundered pounds less. Personally I will take the 122hp advantage, Brembo brakes and modern purpose made interior of the Camaro over the Bullitt Mustang. I guarentee the SS will beat the Bullitt Mustang in every performance catagory which is the bottomline for most.

Pruettfan

One clarification, I agree that the trend to heavier cars is bad. In fact if you follow the industry there is a great deal of discussion about this problem. The additional weight that is required today is why MPG has not really improved and in many models has gotten worse. Most Hondas today get worse mileage today that 15 years ago because gains in engine efficiency are lost to weight. I assume most insiders would agree that they want to build lighter cars it is just that they have a great deal of limtations.

Also the UAW could give a crap less what a car weighs and no car company has ever lobbied for a heavier car. Why would they?