Pruettfan

Today we made our annual trip to the Arizona International Auto Show and I was very excited to see a victory red RS Camaro on display. The car looks very nice. Pictures do not give you the full prospective of the overall size of the car. It was a bit larger than I expected but not to the point that it was large. The interior looked very nice however the car was locked so I could not get in or touch the actual materials. After looking at the rear sightlines I can see very clearly why GM will be offering a rear visibility camera. My wife is 5' tall and I don't think she will be able to see out the back at all. So it is mirrors and cameras for her. I am 6' so it should be ok for me but I expect it will still be a challange. I wish the car were unlocked but once they hit the lots I will be able to see how well I fit, how the seats feel and how well I can get in and out with my partially fused back.

I did get to see and sit in a STR8 Challanger. That car is huge! The seats looked good but did not feel nearly as well as I expected. The steering wheel looks like it is out of the Dodge pickups and the ac controls are way oversized. Overall comparing the two the Camaro is a better package in my biased opinon.

guionM

The Camaro's long wheelbase throws the size perspective a bit.

If you look at the Challenger as a pony car, then it's height and width make it rather large. However, when you view the Challenger as a traditional mid sized muscle car, it's almost perfect in size. It has a huge trunk, and with the front seat adjusted to my size (5'9", I could easily and comfortable fit into the back seat (actually, the seats in the rear are extremely comfortable).

The production Camaro IMHO is far and away better than the concepts. I saw the production Camaro last Thursday. Today I saw the orange convertible concept today at the SF show. It's no contest. It's the details and proportions that make the difference.

Silver2009

Are you telling me that they only have one Camaro at the Phoenix show and that the car is locked closed? I'm headed out there this afternoon and if that is the case I will be really disappointed. GM wonders why it's in a pickle....nuts!

And yes, I'm down over $3k in my GM stock so I have a right to complain!

Pruettfan

Yes they only have one and it is locked. I went back today to take another look and I also made my way to the display of the new mustang. The new mustang's rear looks kinda like the new Acura TL rear end which is odd to me. The interior is greatly improved although the car was on a rotating platform so I could not get into it.

Big Als Z

Its a preproduction car, they arent going to let the public sit in them till they are full production ready.

SSPORT10

I saw the new mustang last week at the Charlotte show, the rear is very ugly!

Mid-Life Crisis

I agree. The Camaro blows it away!

It sounds like I won't be able to sit inside a Camaro at the Chicago Auto Show in February. I was really hoping to try it on for size. Maybe I can bribe the showgirl...

Silver2009

Call me crazy but I was thinking that they could have figured a way to coble together a few more versions of the car that could be crutial to helping the company recover. After I thought about it, I realized that it's not uncommon to have a "display only" version at a show a few months before launch. The Mustang was the same way. And I agree that those taillights look out of place.

The Camaro definitely leaves a different impression in person. It's going to be a huge hit. People were ordering them at the car show!

The Challenger is nice but price is the death nail. A cloth interior RT had a $34K window sticker. Everyone that looked at them said that Dodge was out of their mind with the pricing.

The Hyundai team gave my wife a detail kit for being a Vera Cruz owner. That was a nice touch. The Genesis coup that was there was riced out on a display stand. The pictures I've seen of the car looked attractive, but that version was attrocious. It gave me a stomach ache.

SSPORT10

There should be production models by Feb, probably even ones that you can sit in by then!

Mid-Life Crisis

I hope you're right!

It's going to be close. I think production starts on February 16th and the Chicago Auto Show is the week before...

Pruettfan

I really was hoping to be able to sit in the car. I cannot bring myself to order a car that I have not even sat in. I am looking forward to the spring when there will be some on the lots to check out.

Silver2009

My thoughts exactly. Although, based on walking around it and peeking through the window, it does look promising!

guionM

There is no way any automaker (and by no means is this only just GM)
is going to have a few "cobbled together" prototypes for the public to crawl in and out of. Those things cost alot of money to put together, they haven't been cleared or certified (what if someone gets cut on a piece of underdash plastic? The word lawsuit rings a bell?), and what if something breaks? There isn't a production line to FedEx a new piece overnight.

Also, the Camaro isn't "crucial" to General Motors survival no matter how much one may truely want to believe it is. Camaro is a relatively low volume, low profit vehicle. You could wipe the 5th gen program from existance and GM's key to survival would still be the same: highly desirable mainstream sedans and crossovers.

Finally, if you say the Challenger's price is it's death nail, then you better measure up the Camaro for a coffin and pick out a burial site. The Challenger R/T you saw has a base price that's identical to the Chevrolet Camaro SS. That means if Camaro's optioned the same way the Challenger R/T you saw was, then it too will have a $34K window sticker.

The only reason I got to get inside the new Mustang (actually about 5 of them) was because I went to the LA auto show as a member of the media on Press Preview days. I also was fortunate enough to get on the platform and have the door opened on the Camaro where I was allowed to do everything except crawl in, so I got a really good look at the Camaro.

The Mustang interior is just about perfect, and makes the Camaro interior seem almost garish. The preproduction Camaro is a poor choice to judge interior materials because it's not the finalized version, but it's design and grains are pretty much what's in the prototype. The Mustang's interior looks highly refined and comfortable, while the Camaros is overdesigned. I can only hope Camaro's materials are as good.

Silver2009

Now I remember why I don't post on this board much. Geeze!

I've already conceeded that I knew that "having more cars available " was wishful thinking.

As far as the Camaro being a key vehicle.....could we stand to see the car take some volume from the Mustang? Could it drive some floor traffic like the Mustang does? What's half of that volume? Could GM stand to have that revenue? I think it is an important vehicle and that's my opinion.

On the pricing side, the Challenger was a no option stripper RT at $34K. Camaro pricing shows the comparable 1SS sticker at $30,245. Looks like a $3755 difference to me.

Finally as far as which interior is nicer/more tactile/ergo or whatever I'll have to reserve judgement until I can sit in both.

Guy- I enjoy your posts and your contributions but back off on the caffiene.

guionM

Don't know what sticker you were looking at, but definately was not a "stripper" R/T. The MSRP on a base R/T is currently $30,545 (up from $29,820 this past August).

That's exactly $200 more than a Camaro 1SS..... not $3,700


Next R/T (top model R/T) is the R/T "J" package at $32,480.

The Camaro 2SS is $33,430.

That's $950 less than the similar Camaro model.

You don't want that! What...and lose my nice sunny disposition??