Big Als Z

Yes, we do need a Z28. How the Camaro team wants to work that out is up to them.

Years ago, before durring the major Z28 vs SS wars, I brought up the idea of the SS and Z28 sharing the same engine, just one has different equipment vs the other. SS having more of a street cruiser equipment, while the Z28 got racer stuff.
Guess maybe that should be more or less what we could get now.
I also would like to see the Z28 turn into a light weight, higher output SS. Id like to also see the return of the 1LE package, an additional performance package for the Z28 for "track duty" but not the straight line track, the curvy track.

nexus6

what im wondering is if this thread would even exist if GM just simply didnt have an "SS" and just badged it Z28?.would there be a "what about the SS" thread?

MarcR94v6

Silly question, of course there would, but the Z28 means more to most people than the SS does.

"any Chevy can be an SS, only a Camaro can be a Z28".

IZ28

Yes, there would be. Because we don't want to be outdone by the competitiors on any level.

notgetleft

Now that there's a reasonable fear of no Z28 model, i bet a lot of the "z28 has to be king" folks would have rather seen the current SS as Z28 and wouldn't have been upset at all (as in, why is the SS more powerful then Z28) if a fat, supercharged SS/ZL1 came out later.

5thgen69camaro

yes. Honestly if GM decided to stop at the current SS with up comming gas prices I couldnt blame them. Theyd have a hell of a car. Its not just the badges its the history. Im always shocked of the lack of ZL1 fans here. Its the Super car you rarely see always read about, and go to car shows for. Its price is a little crazy wich makes it rare. Sounds an aweful like the ZR1

But Id completely understand if one never happened

IZ28

To be a "ZL1 fan" means you are a fan of an engine put in 69 Camaros in 69, it's not a model. So, it's kind of irrelevant to the issue, people just think of it when they think of a "Super Camaro" because of what that engine was capable of. Nothing could beat them. It was also a COPO car. The production all-around Super Camaro for about 30 of the 35 years in one form or another, was the Z28.

boxerperson

The best thing for the Z/28 of this generation would be focusing not on horsepower, but on weight. Lightened frame, ala Z06, lots of carbon fiber, perhaps a decontented but still great looking interior that was focused on driving, not gadgets.

Model it after the old, which was less powerful but better handling than the SS. Hell, give it a turbo version of the V-6 in the LS/RS, putting out the same power as the SS, with lighter weight. A couple purists might scream, but if it was overall the best vehicle in the line-up, then to hell with the V-8. Things change.

Another 4000+ pound pig on the market to compete with the SRT-8 Challenger/Charger/300/GT500 would be completely pointless. Take the Z/28 in a different direction than the competition. The horsepower wars are pointless and within a year, will be over.

Do something different. The Camaro's aerodynamics look, to me, to be better than the Challenger and Mustang. Both of those are like flying a barn door into the wind. If a turbo-6, lightened Z/28 with 400hp could be produced and kept to ~3700lbs, it would outperform the GT500/Challenger to 60 due to weight, and probably stay pretty much even at speed, due to aero. And it would destroy them both in handling, as Scott assures us that the new Camaro is an astonishing handler when you consider all the variables that had to be balanced. Charge 36k for it, and shove it out the door. The notorious ease with which a stoutly built turbo engine can be modified would have owners spending 2k and doing 500hp. A car like that would keep the spirit of the Z/28, modernize the concept, and be a hell of a lot of fun. # of cylinders might be a catching point for some people, but I simply don't understand why it needs to be, especially with all the raving that the "disciples" have done about their drive with the regular V-6 version. If we want the camaro to survive and be an awesome performer, perhaps we need to look at what's happened to the original formula and see how we can mimick that using today's technology and materials, instead of making it exactly like the old, only crippled by all the new crash/airbag regulations.

IZ28

Not really, I'd expect a modern Z28 to perform alot better than the SS is gonna, it'd be like going in reverse. No one wanted this SUV weighted thing they wanna come out with.

MarcR94v6

Don't get me wrong from my previous posts, I've never cared which is top dog, I just think a Z28 is necessary. Of course it must be unique from the other models, not necessarily "faster/more powerful". Great descriptive idea by boxerperson above me of what I mean.

guionM

You're pretty close to where I'm thinking, but I'm not entirely opposed to a $40K Camaro. The thing is that when you get to that price level, we aren't talking about traditional Camaros. Remember the sticker shock when the GT500 first came out? A supercharged mustang that jumped from about $32-33,000 to $40,000? To me when you get to that level, you aren't talking Mustangs and Camaros, you're talking rare enthusiast cars for rich Mustang and Camaro guys.


It's not officially killed off, just being seriously rethought as are all GM products under development are at this stage. Basically, moving to a go/no-go decision as I understand it. The case for it isn't exactly iron clad, again as I understand it, but I wouldn't call it dead.

BTW: There's no such thing as a stripper Corvette. A base Cobalt is a stripper. Corvettes come pretty fully loaded with standard stuff.


That's where I disagree somewhat. We don't NEED a car that will take down a GT500. Let me propose an alternative.

The Camaro SS.

When final tuning is done, I'd fully expect the SS with the manual to get from 0-60 in about 4.3 seconds. That's within half a second of a GT500.

Now consider that Camaro SS that comes that close to a GT500 costs about $10,000 LESS and has more content, including independent rear suspension.

I think having a car with 98% of the performance, 120% of the value, while coming in at only 75% of the price is is a much bigger achievement and of greater importance than simply blowing money playing "Follow the leader".

I have to agree wityh everything you wrote here.

Z28 wasn't the biggest, baddest engine around. Z28's history is on the race course. The ILE Camaros were what the Z28 used to be. In in that view, I think GM got things mixed up this round.

The new SS has brembo brakes and a Nurbring tuned suspension. The SS traditionally was a drag race and/or trim package. Seems to me that while the SS has the right perfortmance, perhaps the Brembo brakes and suspension should have been reserved for a Z28 package.


I am by no means proposing that we shouldn't have a Z28. However, I feel that Z28 should be something like a 1LE package. I agree 100% that the SS should be a street cruiser/ drag strip package.

When the GT500 first came out, I didn't understand the purpose of the car. The 2003-2004 Mustang Cobras hit exactly the right note. They cost more than the GT, but at only $32,000 they were a great value the way pony cars are supposed to be. The new Shelby was $40 large and more on the sticker, and dealers jacked that high price into the stratosphere. With the SVT franchise, dealers didn't try to rip you off under risk of losing their SVT franchise. If a Cobra listed for 32 or 35 grand, that's what you paid. Also, the Cobra was understated. It was all about the hardware. There was no factory "look-at-me" stripes. Differences enhanced it's looks.

I saw the GT500 as over the top in every catagory, and the additional weight to handle that extra 100 horsepower came out as a virtural wash. Now a Z28 is about to go down that same path, and I'm just as excited about it as I was when the Cobra left the relm of what I would buy and turned into something else.

Even if money was no object:

I'd buy a used Cobra before I'd buy a GT500.

And I'd buy a Camaro SS before I'd buy the proposed Z28.

It's just not worth it to me.

Z284ever

If GM decides that Camaro needs a powerful and recognizable marketing halo, then Camaro needs a Z/28.

Here's what a Z/28 is NOT:

- It's NOT the Camaro SS.
- It's NOT the GT500.
- It's NOT what the proposed Z/28 is.


(See Jason, I didn't even talk about weight )

Mushasi

I like this simple thought. A Z/28 that's lightweight (relatively), less optioned, more canyon carver capable (Altough I can see an argument for a L/W Z/28 more dragstrip worthy, instead of a canyon carver).

I think the priority now is a more efficient muscle car. And I'm assuming, taking weights off is a better choice than say, developing a powerful, efficient and pollution-friendly engine (not like the current LSx motors are not already that, IMHO).

I personally never cared that The Rustang crowd has a 650hp top dog they can brag about. And I certainly could care less they have a gazillion "Special Editions". We need to think about more about efficient muscle cars. Just my humble opinion.

Mushasi

Amen, brother. Agree 110% on everything you said here.

91Z28350

Charlie,

Agreed 100%! I have been proposing a lighterweight, smaller engined Camaro (I thought a very high revving(7.5K+) 5.3 was the sweet spot)designed to be a corner carver extrordanaire since this debate started.Given that the cost of developing a new 5.3 is most likely prohibitive, I would prefer they take the LS3, tune it to ~450 ish hp and use as much aluminum and lightweight body panels as possible to get the weight down. Save the LSA for an upgraded SS, Z28's heritage is in Trans Am (road course) racing, SS's is the 1320.