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Old 12-15-2010, 09:57 AM   #46
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Re: Chevrolet reviving Z28 as a 2012 model?

I think it would be great if the new Z28 were more like the third gens. The little hood flaps that popped open under heavy acceleration were awesome. That's what the buying public wants, and needs. If you guys that keep referring to Bowling Green are talking about Kentucky, that's my hometown. I'll be home for Christmas and available to share more of my ideas. My family has a long history with the Z28. My brother had a '69. I had an '85 IROC and a '94. From the time I ordered the IROC, which was Quasar Blue, until the time it arrived, I was not able to sleep. It turned out to be the sharpest, most unreliable piece of junk I've ever owned. That car was so sharp it was a topic of conversation for weeks in my hometown. I felt like a rock star. Another one of my ideas is to make those door stickers an option on the new Z28, but I would spell it IROCK. I would also make these wheels and tires an option, http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog....5_iroc_580.jpg. The masses have spoken.
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Old 12-15-2010, 02:13 PM   #47
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Re: Chevrolet reviving Z28 as a 2012 model?

I think the biggest issue is the use of "Z28" on this car. Much like the backlash for slapping GTO on the Monaro. There is no doubt an LSA powered Camaro with suspension upgrades will perform. This car will be a beast in many respects. But I don't think the formula is Z28.
I'd rather GM called it ZL1 as I think then we wouldn't get into a heritage debate we could respect the car for what it is and what it can do.
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Old 12-15-2010, 03:06 PM   #48
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Re: Chevrolet reviving Z28 as a 2012 model?

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Originally Posted by 99SilverSS View Post
I think the biggest issue is the use of "Z28" on this car. Much like the backlash for slapping GTO on the Monaro. There is no doubt an LSA powered Camaro with suspension upgrades will perform. This car will be a beast in many respects. But I don't think the formula is Z28.
I'd rather GM called it ZL1 as I think then we wouldn't get into a heritage debate we could respect the car for what it is and what it can do.
I'm torn on this one....

I'm convinced that the Camaro Team has few options with the development of this car. I mean, it's never going to be a sinewy corner carver in the tradition of the original. It can't be. So what do you do? I guess you drop a big blown motor in it and have a product to sell.

But...

...at least it clears up all of that old brand confusion created by the 4th gen SLP partnership. You'll now have a clearly delineated marketing hierarchy for Camaro - with Z/28 clearly on top.

As long as GM understands what we all mean when we say "REAL" Z/28, and doesn't lose sight of it when they start working on the next gen car.
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Old 12-15-2010, 03:24 PM   #49
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Re: Chevrolet reviving Z28 as a 2012 model?

Also, I think that ZL1 has some sort of legal issue, in that someone else owns the name.

Basically, Camaro has SS and Z/28. They need to make the best of those two.
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Old 12-15-2010, 06:44 PM   #50
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Re: Chevrolet reviving Z28 as a 2012 model?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BTC View Post
I think it would be great if the new Z28 were more like the third gens. The little hood flaps that popped open under heavy acceleration were awesome.
You do know that the 80-81, and 69 Z28s also had "cowl induction"?
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Old 12-15-2010, 06:45 PM   #51
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Re: Chevrolet reviving Z28 as a 2012 model?

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Also, I think that ZL1 has some sort of legal issue, in that someone else owns the name.
Not to mention that there was never a production Camaro ZL1.
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Old 12-16-2010, 06:08 PM   #52
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Re: Chevrolet reviving Z28 as a 2012 model?

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Not to mention that there was never a production Camaro ZL1.
Haha no but there were 69 ZL-1's in '69. Wonder if anyone owns the rights to ZL1? GM could do what Ford had to with the Ford GT.

It's obvious that the Z28 brand is too strong for GM to leave off this popular 5th Gen.
And yes if there was ever a debate on what moniker would be placed on the king of the hill Camaro I think we will have of definitive answer soon. I can embrace the car more than the moniker on the fender.

But maybe we should as true enthusiasts like to do and further muddy the heritage waters. Let this Z be a "Z28" but don't give the slash back until it honors its heritage more. (drop the weight, supercharger, price and learn how to get nimble not just handle) Make it earn back the slash! 1st Gen true Z/28's had the slash and hopefully one day it returns. So let the "save the Slash campaign begin!
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Last edited by 99SilverSS; 12-16-2010 at 06:10 PM.
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Old 12-16-2010, 07:26 PM   #53
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Re: Chevrolet reviving Z28 as a 2012 model?

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Originally Posted by 99SilverSS View Post
But maybe we should as true enthusiasts like to do and further muddy the heritage waters. Let this Z be a "Z28" but don't give the slash back until it honors its heritage more. (drop the weight, supercharger, price and learn how to get nimble not just handle) Make it earn back the slash! 1st Gen true Z/28's had the slash and hopefully one day it returns. So let the "save the Slash campaign begin!
*No puns about old guitar wielding rack stars!

Hey. I like that!
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Old 12-17-2010, 01:45 PM   #54
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Re: Chevrolet reviving Z28 as a 2012 model?

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Haha no but there were 69 ZL-1's in '69. Wonder if anyone owns the rights to ZL1? GM could do what Ford had to with the Ford GT.
My point was that the 69 "ZL1"s were in fact COPOs, not production Camaros. They had no ZL1 badging and actually ZL1 was the engine RPO designation.

Its not like the Camaro SS-350, was known as the Camaro "L35", was it?
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Old 12-17-2010, 02:38 PM   #55
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Re: Chevrolet reviving Z28 as a 2012 model?

Charlie and Doug - we heard you and we continue to hear you -

Let's look at reality --

1. Everyone has their idea of what a Z28 should be.......the problem is that it's the quickest way to get a fistfight going! I don't care how long you spend talking about it - you will never get the Camaro Community as a whole to agree on ANYTHING at 100 percent - or even 80 percent.......

2. We built just under 860,000 Z28s over 35 years -- and just over 28,000 are what Charlie and Doug describe. (602 in 1967, 7,199 in 1968, and 28,103 in 1969. (keep in mind that the 69 was a 16+month model run.....) The rest of those 860,000 Z28s did not fit that formula -- and a lot of Camaro owners see the 3rd gen - or the 2nd gen - or the 4th gen - as their idea of what a Z28 should be....I don't necessarily agree with that assessment - but the reality is that we DO listen to our customers and I would challenge anyone to show me a brand that listens more than we do - and reacts to that input as we do. (.....just because we don't do what YOU want does not mean that the team does not listen!)

3. We all know WHY the orginal Z28 happened - but the reality is that the world has changed drastically....especially as it relates to automobile development and development costs.......which leads to point #4.

4. CAFE -- gentlemen -unless you can figure a way to vote most of our elected officials out of office (......a good idea in my opinion....) you are not going to change where CAFE is going...........and where it is going is --as our friend Peter DeLorenzo calls it "....a great big bowl of not good..." which leads to point #5......

5. The days of an inexpensive V8 performance car are just about done..... A 35mpg fleet average in 2016 is giving every manufacturer serious fits.....and I can guarantee that it is going to be much more stringent by 2020. (that comes up very shortly before our elected officials..... The way to control the volume is price. Like it or not, you cannot change the premise of 'supply and demand'

6. There IS a ZL1 available right now - approx 750hp - thru SLP....


Let me ask you this: Would you agree that the Z28 nameplate should go on the Camaro that goes around the road course the fastest?


Charlie - you apparently are taking a poll of who would buy a Z28 that fits your ideal --(for at least the 100th time...) that's fine -

.... while there are some who agree with you PROVIDED that we could do what you propose under the laws we face - -there are many more that are saying -- no - I just want the ultimate Camaro........and I want it to say Z28 on the side.

I (along with other members of the Camaro team) spend a LOT of time talking to Camaro people - and there are very few afraid to speak their minds.......and that's why I can honestly say that what you and a few on the board here want is not what manymanymany other enthusiasts want......


And Finally -


.................................................. .........who said we're building a Z28?
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Old 12-17-2010, 03:06 PM   #56
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Re: Chevrolet reviving Z28 as a 2012 model?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 99SilverSS View Post
But maybe we should as true enthusiasts like to do and further muddy the heritage waters. Let this Z be a "Z28" but don't give the slash back until it honors its heritage more. (drop the weight, supercharger, price and learn how to get nimble not just handle) Make it earn back the slash! 1st Gen true Z/28's had the slash and hopefully one day it returns. So let the "save the Slash campaign begin!
*No puns about old guitar wielding rack stars!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z284ever View Post
Hey. I like that!
I like it to.
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Old 12-17-2010, 05:10 PM   #57
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Re: Chevrolet reviving Z28 as a 2012 model?

Hey Scott, how's your new job? Your title sounds interesting!

BTW, I am currently building a BIG garage. I'll save a spot for "my" Z/28 in it - just in case.

Last edited by Z284ever; 12-17-2010 at 05:19 PM.
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Old 12-17-2010, 08:25 PM   #58
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Re: Chevrolet reviving Z28 as a 2012 model?

im a few days late on this conversation the old 302 was a smallblock 283 with a 327 crank in it i think? or was it the other way around 327 with a 283 crank regardless when i was growing up they were high spinners and ablast todrive !!
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Old 12-18-2010, 03:20 AM   #59
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Re: Chevrolet reviving Z28 as a 2012 model?

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My point was that the 69 "ZL1"s were in fact COPOs, not production Camaros. They had no ZL1 badging and actually ZL1 was the engine RPO designation.

Its not like the Camaro SS-350, was known as the Camaro "L35", was it?
Ok well then what does the "P" in COPO stand for?

If GM needed at least 50 examples built and made available for sale to qualify the ZL-1 for racing then how are they not production?
All 69 were made available for public sale. Yes at about twice the cost of a SS Camaro but still available for sale.

As for badging. There were no L88 on Vettes, ZL1 on Camaro/Vettes or even Z/28 badges on '67 Camaros but we still know what they are and all are production. The only difference is RPO Z28 became a marketing brand and the others did not.
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Old 12-18-2010, 05:40 AM   #60
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Re: Chevrolet reviving Z28 as a 2012 model?

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im a few days late on this conversation the old 302 was a smallblock 283 with a 327 crank in it i think? or was it the other way around 327 with a 283 crank regardless when i was growing up they were high spinners and ablast todrive !!
Read the whole thread, this post earlier described some of the attributes of the 302cid engine:

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildpaws View Post
I'm glad to see a lot of good first gen. Z/28 heritage info being shared, but let's correct some small errors. The 302cid Z/28 was available for three model years, '67-'69. And actually the blocks were 302/327/350 cid ready as all three engines had the same bore. The '67 302 used a small journal block, '68 and '69 used a large journal block. '67/'68 302 blocks were 2 bolt main caps, the '69 block (which was the DZ302) was the only one with 4 bolt main caps. And as happened often back then, there were some differences in what equipment was used at model changeover time that may conflict with this (such as the narrow configuration '67/'68 trunk spoiler being used on very early '69 models). Back to the OPs topic, I would have been happier if a new Z/28 was more "in line" with the heritage of the first gen. Z/28s, but given the Zeta chassis and body design with the overall weight around 3800+ pounds, I can see why a decision was made to go with an LSA type engine and HP. Perhaps a sixth gen. Z/28 in a few years will be more in line with the first gen. heritage.
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Old 12-18-2010, 05:40 AM
 
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