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Old 12-09-2010, 03:39 PM   #31
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Re: Chevrolet reviving Z28 as a 2012 model?

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Originally Posted by Mossweed View Post
Don't forget the 327 cid models also. There were about 3 horsepower verisons of this in the 67 and later camaros. 275 hp. -300hp.
Actually there were two 327s in 67 and 68: the 2bbl 210hp and the 4bbl 275hp (L30). In fact the L30 used the same heads, intake and carb as the L35 SS-350.
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Old 12-11-2010, 06:23 PM   #32
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Re: Chevrolet reviving Z28 as a 2012 model?

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Originally Posted by 1fastdog View Post
Can't respond as to what the OP was talking about.

As for what I remember, as I bought a 1969 Z/28 in 1969, perhaps it is suggested that a lightweight, no AC, pay additional $ to get rear disc brakes, no abs, no traction controlled, no stabilization system, no cat, no airbagged, no OnStar'ed, lap belt only, non computer engine controlled, Holley carburated, soild lifter equipped, steel wheeled, bias ply tire'd, 4 speed manual only, 14+ second 1/4 mile time, vinyl and cloth seated, street/roadcourse stormer is preferrable.

The cool thing was you could actually set camber, in the front only, which wasn't possible with the original Z/28...
You want the new Z28 to get 14+ in the 1/4 mile! My 2lt does that stock
I'm sure it will be a lot faster..IMO
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Old 12-12-2010, 08:57 AM   #33
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Re: Chevrolet reviving Z28 as a 2012 model?

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You want the new Z28 to get 14+ in the 1/4 mile! My 2lt does that stock
I'm sure it will be a lot faster..IMO


He didn't say he wanted that. He is teasing those who want the Z/28 to "go back to the original" concept. The old car is what he was describing there (no a/c, no ABS, no traction control, 14 sec 1/4 mile, etc.).

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Old 12-12-2010, 11:53 AM   #34
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Re: Chevrolet reviving Z28 as a 2012 model?

Keep in mind that the original was handicapped by the crappy narrow bias-ply tires we had back in the day.
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Old 12-12-2010, 01:56 PM   #35
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Re: Chevrolet reviving Z28 as a 2012 model?

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Originally Posted by RickRay View Post
You want the new Z28 to get 14+ in the 1/4 mile! My 2lt does that stock
I'm sure it will be a lot faster..IMO
Wanting a new Z/28 to conform to the heritage of the first gen. Z/28 has nothing to do with comparing performance numbers between the old and the new (wouldn't you expect there to be some improvement in the numbers in 43 years?). It has to do with the spirit or purpose of how the new one is built. The original Z/28s were purpose built for SCCA homologation in the TransAm Sedan Series, a road ready factory built race car if you will, that was designed to be a far better handling/performing vehicle than the SS Camaro was. I certainly would like to see a new Z/28 built along those criteria (with the exception of the SCCA homologation), certainly with today's better engine technology and the chassis engineering improvements, such a purpose built Z/28 today would be an awesome automobile. And while I think the new Z/28 will be pretty darn good with the LSA and all of the chassis tweaks it will likely get, I think it will take a lighter version that we might see with the 6th gen. chassis/body to truly get back to the heritage of the original.
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Old 12-12-2010, 02:06 PM   #36
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Re: Chevrolet reviving Z28 as a 2012 model?

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Originally Posted by jg95z28 View Post
Keep in mind that the original was handicapped by the crappy narrow bias-ply tires we had back in the day.

Yep, I wore those tires out like clockwork! I will say though that once you overdrove those tires, the Z/28 was still a very stable platform @ 90 degrees off of your straight line course. In other words, when you lost it and spun out, it was still stable while you were sliding sideways. I even did a few 180s back in the day.
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Old 12-12-2010, 06:08 PM   #37
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Re: Chevrolet reviving Z28 as a 2012 model?

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Originally Posted by 96_Camaro_B4C View Post


He didn't say he wanted that. He is teasing those who want the Z/28 to "go back to the original" concept. The old car is what he was describing there (no a/c, no ABS, no traction control, 14 sec 1/4 mile, etc.).

Just read it wrong...
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Old 12-12-2010, 09:11 PM   #38
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Re: Chevrolet reviving Z28 as a 2012 model?

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Originally Posted by wildpaws View Post
Wanting a new Z/28 to conform to the heritage of the first gen. Z/28 has nothing to do with comparing performance numbers between the old and the new (wouldn't you expect there to be some improvement in the numbers in 43 years?). It has to do with the spirit or purpose of how the new one is built. The original Z/28s were purpose built for SCCA homologation in the TransAm Sedan Series, a road ready factory built race car if you will, that was designed to be a far better handling/performing vehicle than the SS Camaro was. I certainly would like to see a new Z/28 built along those criteria (with the exception of the SCCA homologation), certainly with today's better engine technology and the chassis engineering improvements, such a purpose built Z/28 today would be an awesome automobile. And while I think the new Z/28 will be pretty darn good with the LSA and all of the chassis tweaks it will likely get, I think it will take a lighter version that we might see with the 6th gen. chassis/body to truly get back to the heritage of the original.
Clyde
Yes, the new Z/28 will be fast and GM will sell every one at a premium. But I don't see it carrying the "spirit" of the original for a couple of reasons. For one, due to the limits of it's architecture. For another, the original was born from the crucible of racing and a generous budget to match.

I mirror your sentiments that the 6th gen may provide the building blocks to create the car which carries the spirit many of us desire. Let's hope that there are enough people at GM who know what we're talking about.
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Old 12-13-2010, 10:04 AM   #39
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Re: Chevrolet reviving Z28 as a 2012 model?

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Originally Posted by wildpaws View Post
Wanting a new Z/28 to conform to the heritage of the first gen. Z/28 has nothing to do with comparing performance numbers between the old and the new (wouldn't you expect there to be some improvement in the numbers in 43 years?). It has to do with the spirit or purpose of how the new one is built. The original Z/28s were purpose built for SCCA homologation in the TransAm Sedan Series, a road ready factory built race car if you will, that was designed to be a far better handling/performing vehicle than the SS Camaro was. I certainly would like to see a new Z/28 built along those criteria (with the exception of the SCCA homologation), certainly with today's better engine technology and the chassis engineering improvements, such a purpose built Z/28 today would be an awesome automobile. And while I think the new Z/28 will be pretty darn good with the LSA and all of the chassis tweaks it will likely get, I think it will take a lighter version that we might see with the 6th gen. chassis/body to truly get back to the heritage of the original.
Clyde
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Just like word association for me, someone says running from the cops and the first word that popped into my head was CAMARO!
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Old 12-13-2010, 10:21 AM   #40
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Re: Chevrolet reviving Z28 as a 2012 model?

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While, obviously I agree with Charlie, bottom line for me is that until "someone" at GM recognizes the 'right' way to build a Camaro, a 'real Z/28'...I'll continue to drive my C5 or a C6.

I asked Scott, back at one of the secret Saturday breakfast meetings I used to organize at the Bowling Green Camaro/Firebird events, if Id be happy getting out of my C5 into a new Camaro...he answered "I don't know".....he was right, for now.....

Bottom line, I care less about calling it a Z/28 as I do actually getting a car I'd be happy driving......and a 4k+# nose heavy, SC'd beast ain't it......

The current car is what it is. Those who like it will buy, those who don't, won't. For me it's water under the bridge now.

I'm more concerned that perhaps GM doesn't have a core understanding of what we're talking about when we say "real" Z/28 or the "spirit" of Z/28. I mean, I was standing right next to you Doug, at the Heritage Center, when we were describing what we meant by that to the Camaro Team, the night before the reveal, 5 years ago. I thought that we were communicating clearly and they seemed to be agreeing with us.

Maybe, people like us need to do a better job of getting the message out - I don't know.....
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Old 12-13-2010, 11:22 AM   #41
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Re: Chevrolet reviving Z28 as a 2012 model?

The message was received and the Camaro was built exactly like the majority of the car buying public wanted. The small minority who want to focus on 3 years of a 40 year heritage just isn't going to draw the demand nor profitability that GM needs right now (or ever for that matter.) With today's economy, crash standards, the publics demand for more content, and ever increasing regulation there will never be a 1st gen Z/28 version of the Camaro.

If we are lucky we will get something similar to the Boss but that still doesn't quite fit the 1st gen Z/28's heritage. It still has most if not all of the content of the regular car.

There was a reason why the Camaro team "seemed to agree with you." Doesn't it seem kind of arrogant to think that a team of engineers and developers, who after several years of hard work to build what the MASSES wanted, should "get the message" from a couple of guys the night before the reveal?
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Old 12-13-2010, 01:59 PM   #42
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Re: Chevrolet reviving Z28 as a 2012 model?

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The message was received and the Camaro was built exactly like the majority of the car buying public wanted. The small minority who want to focus on 3 years of a 40 year heritage just isn't going to draw the demand nor profitability that GM needs right now (or ever for that matter.) With today's economy, crash standards, the publics demand for more content, and ever increasing regulation there will never be a 1st gen Z/28 version of the Camaro.

If we are lucky we will get something similar to the Boss but that still doesn't quite fit the 1st gen Z/28's heritage. It still has most if not all of the content of the regular car.

There was a reason why the Camaro team "seemed to agree with you." Doesn't it seem kind of arrogant to think that a team of engineers and developers, who after several years of hard work to build what the MASSES wanted, should "get the message" from a couple of guys the night before the reveal?

You may say it's arrogant or whatever, but we were invited there and it was they who asked for our input.

And the Boss BTW, pretty much hits the bullseye IMO.
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Old 12-13-2010, 03:41 PM   #43
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Re: Chevrolet reviving Z28 as a 2012 model?

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Originally Posted by 95firehawk View Post
The message was received and the Camaro was built exactly like the majority of the car buying public wanted. The small minority who want to focus on 3 years of a 40 year heritage just isn't going to draw the demand nor profitability that GM needs right now (or ever for that matter.) With today's economy, crash standards, the publics demand for more content, and ever increasing regulation there will never be a 1st gen Z/28 version of the Camaro.

If we are lucky we will get something similar to the Boss but that still doesn't quite fit the 1st gen Z/28's heritage. It still has most if not all of the content of the regular car.

There was a reason why the Camaro team "seemed to agree with you." Doesn't it seem kind of arrogant to think that a team of engineers and developers, who after several years of hard work to build what the MASSES wanted, should "get the message" from a couple of guys the night before the reveal?
I think you're way off the mark here. Just how many of those "MASSES" said they wanted a nearly two ton Camaro which would require greater engine power as well as work the suspension very hard to acheive good handling?? I seriously doubt anyone in the "MASSES" asked for or wanted those criteria, but that's what they got. Part of your issue with this discussion seems to be YOUR inability to get beyond that first three years of Camaro and Z/28 heritage. I don't recall ANYONE in this discussion saying they wanted a de-contented vehicle, what was put forth is that the coming Z/28 is a far cry from the heritage. I mean really, wouldn't you rather see a full content Z/28 that still weighed in the 3,400-3,500 pound range rather than a nearly two ton behemoth? Wouldn't a Z/28 lighter in weight be easier to turn into an excellent handling vehicle (as well as perhaps getting better fuel economy)? Most of us involved in this discussion realize the limits imposed by the current Zeta II chassis and body design, that's why we are hoping that something good might happen with the coming sixth gen. versions in a few years. No, I think most of the people involved in this discussion have an excellent perspective of what is and isn't possible both now and in the future.
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Old 12-14-2010, 12:16 PM   #44
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Re: Chevrolet reviving Z28 as a 2012 model?

I'll love the 2012 Z/28 because after all it is still a Camaro. However like Charlie, Clyde, Doug and others, my preference for a proper Z/28 would be "something else".

Vince Piggins is probably rolling over in his grave.
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Old 12-14-2010, 04:12 PM   #45
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Re: Chevrolet reviving Z28 as a 2012 model?

Okay, so in this thread we have Jeff, Clyde, Doug and myself with a request for a certain kind of car we'd like to buy. Off the top of my head, I know about a half dozen guys which would run, not walk, RUN, to the Chevy dealer with their checkbooks for the same car. Maybe the rest of you guys have a similar number of like minded friends looking to buy that kind of car too. So, that's 28 people right there.

Hey, "arrogant" people have money to spend on cars too you know!
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Old 12-14-2010, 04:12 PM
 
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