Camaro ZL1 by the Numbers: 3.9 Seconds, 184 mph, $54,995
11-16-2011, 04:02 PM
#31
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Re: Camaro ZL1 by the Numbers: 3.9 Seconds, 184 mph, $54,995
I agree about the limited production thing. Let's hope GM does not fall asleep on this issue and if the demand is there for the ZL1 they better make damn sure they build as many as they can otherwise they are going to shoot themselves in the foot. I think GM will do right and build according to supply demands. GM already knows how successful the V6 and SS models are, so I am sure that they will keep their eyes close on the ZL1 and build accordingly.
11-16-2011, 04:37 PM
#32
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Re: Camaro ZL1 by the Numbers: 3.9 Seconds, 184 mph, $54,995
Chevy will sell every ZL1 they make; dealer markup or not.
The unfortunate reality is for those whom can't afford it you're not in the target market.
The unfortunate reality is for those whom can't afford it you're not in the target market.
11-16-2011, 06:55 PM
#33
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Re: Camaro ZL1 by the Numbers: 3.9 Seconds, 184 mph, $54,995
I live in a major metropolitan area. Within close proximity to me there are two dragstrips (Infineon & Sacramento). Meanwhile there are three road courses (Infineon, Thunderhill and Laguna Seca).
After reading the news on the 650hp GT-500, my first thoughts were, "show me a quicker time than the ZL1 on the ring and I'll be impressed... otherwise... BFD."
11-16-2011, 10:27 PM
#34
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Re: Camaro ZL1 by the Numbers: 3.9 Seconds, 184 mph, $54,995
i think the car is great and the price is fair. if i could afford one, i would get one no doubt. ashen grey with the carbon fiber hood insert and the black stock wheels. my oh my. people on the message boards whine too too much about everything. just be glad that these cars are around in the first place!!!
thanks GM, the camaro team and fbodfather, and i look forward to seeing it in person at the la auto show...
thanks GM, the camaro team and fbodfather, and i look forward to seeing it in person at the la auto show...
11-16-2011, 10:43 PM
#35
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Re: Camaro ZL1 by the Numbers: 3.9 Seconds, 184 mph, $54,995
Just a tidbit.. An elapsed time on the slip from your local drag strip is also a rolling start. That's why car rags and manufacturers list their "off regular pavement" times using a rolling start as well.
11-17-2011, 06:06 AM
#36
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Re: Camaro ZL1 by the Numbers: 3.9 Seconds, 184 mph, $54,995
The "rolling start" on a drag strip varies depending upon how you are staged, and is insignificant compared to something like C&D's 5 mph rolling start tests. In order to compare a drag strip launch to what is referred to here, we would need to know how much of a rolling start they took. I'm betting it was more than a few inches.
As for "the ring"....one might wish to see what the new GT500 does before deciding one is better than the other....
As for "the ring"....one might wish to see what the new GT500 does before deciding one is better than the other....
11-17-2011, 07:00 AM
#38
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Re: Camaro ZL1 by the Numbers: 3.9 Seconds, 184 mph, $54,995
im not so much concerned with the 0-60 as much as i am the 30-60 or 60-80. these are what im more interested in. these times give you a great input as to how well the car will come out of corners and how the TQ is.
11-17-2011, 07:17 AM
#39
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Re: Camaro ZL1 by the Numbers: 3.9 Seconds, 184 mph, $54,995
The base price seems reasonable for a car with this level of capability. As others have pointed out though, throw in the usual options and taxes and dealer markup and prepare to grab your ankles - especially if you buy one off the lot instead of ordering one to your specs.
That's a bit unfair. We have no idea how the ZL1 is going to hook - in fact, with the IRS and that much HP/TQ I would not expect it to be without its own issues. We may be pleasantly surprised, but I don't think the fact that we're given rolling start numbers is a coincidence.
As far as the "Ring" battle goes, even if the '13 GT500 outperforms the ZL1 there, the narrative from Camp GM will be that it isn't because it handles better, it just has a bit more power. In the end I believe the two cars will be so close in performance it will simply be a matter of personal preference for those elite who are fortunate enough to be able to purchase such a machine.
As far as the GT500, the only reason for the huge increase in HP to 650 is because with 540 HP that POS couldn't put the power down with horrible 0-60 times with that much HP! And despite the increase in HP for the GT500, it is still the same unattractive vehicle it has been all along.
As far as the "Ring" battle goes, even if the '13 GT500 outperforms the ZL1 there, the narrative from Camp GM will be that it isn't because it handles better, it just has a bit more power. In the end I believe the two cars will be so close in performance it will simply be a matter of personal preference for those elite who are fortunate enough to be able to purchase such a machine.
Last edited by Z28Wilson; 11-17-2011 at 07:20 AM.
11-17-2011, 08:27 AM
#40
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Re: Camaro ZL1 by the Numbers: 3.9 Seconds, 184 mph, $54,995
The base price seems reasonable for a car with this level of capability. As others have pointed out though, throw in the usual options and taxes and dealer markup and prepare to grab your ankles - especially if you buy one off the lot instead of ordering one to your specs.
That's a bit unfair. We have no idea how the ZL1 is going to hook - in fact, with the IRS and that much HP/TQ I would not expect it to be without its own issues. We may be pleasantly surprised, but I don't think the fact that we're given rolling start numbers is a coincidence.
As far as the "Ring" battle goes, even if the '13 GT500 outperforms the ZL1 there, the narrative from Camp GM will be that it isn't because it handles better, it just has a bit more power. In the end I believe the two cars will be so close in performance it will simply be a matter of personal preference for those elite who are fortunate enough to be able to purchase such a machine.
That's a bit unfair. We have no idea how the ZL1 is going to hook - in fact, with the IRS and that much HP/TQ I would not expect it to be without its own issues. We may be pleasantly surprised, but I don't think the fact that we're given rolling start numbers is a coincidence.
As far as the "Ring" battle goes, even if the '13 GT500 outperforms the ZL1 there, the narrative from Camp GM will be that it isn't because it handles better, it just has a bit more power. In the end I believe the two cars will be so close in performance it will simply be a matter of personal preference for those elite who are fortunate enough to be able to purchase such a machine.
11-17-2011, 12:30 PM
#41
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Re: Camaro ZL1 by the Numbers: 3.9 Seconds, 184 mph, $54,995
My comments we're purely based on what I prefer. I've never been a quarter mile guy. I've always made improvements to make my cars handle better rather than have the most horsepower. I for one would be shocked if the GT-500 out performed the ZL1 at "the ring"... after all the Camaro has IRS and a tricked out suspension designed for the twisties. No doubt the Mustang will be quicker in a straight line with more hp and less mass.
As for the previous comments by others on price... the last time I ventured into my local Ford dealer (late 2009 while car shopping for my mom) they had a GT-500 in the showroom. I want to say it was either a KR or a Phase III, but what stuck most in my mind was the sticker price... "Only $98k" was written on the windshield in white grease-paint. The point being, these types of cars are produced in low volumes and command a premium (along with dealer infused "market adjustments"). If the ZL-1 is "stickered" at $55k, one should expect to pay north of $60k to be the first to own one (probably closer to $70k).
11-17-2011, 02:09 PM
#42
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Re: Camaro ZL1 by the Numbers: 3.9 Seconds, 184 mph, $54,995
It doesn't say USED in there either. But since you claim that's what you meant, what are used ZR1s going for?
The current Shelby is no slouch in the corners, especially with the performance pack, and the new one has the selectable suspension settings which, from what I've read is much better in the track mode.
As for the prices of KR's, they stickered at 80K, because they were special cars built at the Shelby facility. There were only 1572 made between 2 years, and the economy was pretty good at that point, so there were some pretty big markups. (Kinda like the SLP ZL1) I'm not familliar with a Phase III so I can't comment on that .
No doubt.
My comments we're purely based on what I prefer. I've never been a quarter mile guy. I've always made improvements to make my cars handle better rather than have the most horsepower. I for one would be shocked if the GT-500 out performed the ZL1 at "the ring"... after all the Camaro has IRS and a tricked out suspension designed for the twisties. No doubt the Mustang will be quicker in a straight line with more hp and less mass.
As for the previous comments by others on price... the last time I ventured into my local Ford dealer (late 2009 while car shopping for my mom) they had a GT-500 in the showroom. I want to say it was either a KR or a Phase III, but what stuck most in my mind was the sticker price... "Only $98k" was written on the windshield in white grease-paint. The point being, these types of cars are produced in low volumes and command a premium (along with dealer infused "market adjustments"). If the ZL-1 is "stickered" at $55k, one should expect to pay north of $60k to be the first to own one (probably closer to $70k).
My comments we're purely based on what I prefer. I've never been a quarter mile guy. I've always made improvements to make my cars handle better rather than have the most horsepower. I for one would be shocked if the GT-500 out performed the ZL1 at "the ring"... after all the Camaro has IRS and a tricked out suspension designed for the twisties. No doubt the Mustang will be quicker in a straight line with more hp and less mass.
As for the previous comments by others on price... the last time I ventured into my local Ford dealer (late 2009 while car shopping for my mom) they had a GT-500 in the showroom. I want to say it was either a KR or a Phase III, but what stuck most in my mind was the sticker price... "Only $98k" was written on the windshield in white grease-paint. The point being, these types of cars are produced in low volumes and command a premium (along with dealer infused "market adjustments"). If the ZL-1 is "stickered" at $55k, one should expect to pay north of $60k to be the first to own one (probably closer to $70k).
As for the prices of KR's, they stickered at 80K, because they were special cars built at the Shelby facility. There were only 1572 made between 2 years, and the economy was pretty good at that point, so there were some pretty big markups. (Kinda like the SLP ZL1) I'm not familliar with a Phase III so I can't comment on that .
11-18-2011, 07:46 AM
#43
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Re: Camaro ZL1 by the Numbers: 3.9 Seconds, 184 mph, $54,995
As far as the "Ring" battle goes, even if the '13 GT500 outperforms the ZL1 there, the narrative from Camp GM will be that it isn't because it handles better, it just has a bit more power. In the end I believe the two cars will be so close in performance it will simply be a matter of personal preference for those elite who are fortunate enough to be able to purchase such a machine.
11-18-2011, 09:08 AM
#44
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Re: Camaro ZL1 by the Numbers: 3.9 Seconds, 184 mph, $54,995
I too believe this in regards to the cornering capabilities of each. However in acceleration its going to be favoring the GT500. With its weight being close or better than the ZL1 and having a clear hp advantage it doesn't take a rocket scientist to to figure that out.
11-18-2011, 12:45 PM
#45
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Re: Camaro ZL1 by the Numbers: 3.9 Seconds, 184 mph, $54,995
It's known that Ford tested the '13 GT500 at Nurburgring as they have admitted to this. I find it hard to believe that they didn't run any fast timed laps if even just for their own purposes. Ford also had no problem conveniently unveiling the GT500 for the LA Show right in line with GM's official ZL1 announcement. One would have to think if Ford had a better Nurburgring time they would have announced it then to remove any doubt.
That's not to say they won't announce something later or even go back and make a run for all to see. But a better Ring time along with the other trumping of the ZL1 specs would have been a real knockout punch in the eyes of the media.
That's not to say they won't announce something later or even go back and make a run for all to see. But a better Ring time along with the other trumping of the ZL1 specs would have been a real knockout punch in the eyes of the media.