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Old 02-25-2010, 08:58 AM   #46
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I guess I am commenting because I wonder how many of the people on this forum that criticize the car so much have actually spent some time more than a test drive around the block in this car...
When you own one you come to love many aspects of the car and appreciate the effort GM put in the product. It's an enduring product with lines that will be come classic. Every stamped surface and panel has had thought and patience built in to build a classic.
Could they have done better?? yeah.....at the price point...a bit.... Look around at the industry and see what adulation the car gets and one starts to see why they made compromises on "practicality"....To me (in my opinion) the worst thing the designers could do is to bow to the comments of "It's got lousy visibility" or "the trunk opening is comical".

After a day of driving the car the blind spot is a non issue and the coolness of the chopped windows becomes the car's MOST important feature and the trunk wont swallow massive items (actually quite deep though and can carry lots of stuff with back seat down)....who cares? I dont want an Impala anyways.
I will repeat..... GO spend some time with the car...Drive it on a rough road or drive it against oncoming heavy trucks on a 2 lane highway and feel the rock solid planted feeling the car has and then the extra 200-300pds becomes a non issue. Secondly if god forbid you ever get smucked hard those extra pounds might come in handy. Take it around a fast ramp and nail it....it flat out flies....
The mustang is ahead?? please folks....5 speed , 300HP +, solid axle, boring styling...I am fully aware of the new one (saw it in Detroit and Toronto Auto Show) and have made comments on it and it will be a player for sure but it aint no Camaro. It might be a bit quicker at the track. so what? All of you calling for a NO compromise street fighter....are you really gonna drive it daily on real roads in the real world...? I have a owned a few no compromise cars in my life...drove em on smooth roads on sunday afternoons...
Maybe you should be looking at Corvette. Its pretty no compromise.
2010 Current Mustangs seem so common and cheaply built and cost cut to death(except for the interior) . Lets see what the 412HP car brings..... Havent read a test yet.
Am I sensitive? Not really..... cause I know everywhere I go this coming Canadian summer, people will drool over the Oshawa built beautiful Camaro and many wont pay a second glance at Stangs and I am confident that Camaro willcontinue to be "the" car to have ....
We are a proud country and of course many americans have seen that in all the canadian flags at all the olympic events....and of course a part of me is proud to drive a car manufactured 30 miles from my house with an LS3 manufactured 70 miles from my house....so this may be where my sensitivity comes from. I have owned so many GM's built in the USA that it's a pleasure to drive a truly Canadian product for the most part.

PS. Disciples....Please tell GM to RECALL MY BREMBOS !!! RECALL MY BREMBOS !!! (yes I am opinionated and sensitive on this point). My calipers suck with with wheel weights on them.
but never lose the V8...NO turbo 6's please....
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Old 02-25-2010, 02:48 PM   #47
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PS. Disciples....Please tell GM to RECALL MY BREMBOS !!! RECALL MY BREMBOS !!! (yes I am opinionated and sensitive on this point). My calipers suck with with wheel weights on them.
but never lose the V8...NO turbo 6's please....
Actually, I'm quite shocked that you're not telling us how awesome those stick-on weights are and how hot supermodels give you the thumbs up when they see you driving with them.

Just kidding...


I'd raise holy hell with GM if that were my car, until I got replacement calipers. Of course the "fixed" ones don't look much better.
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Old 02-26-2010, 07:40 PM   #48
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It would be silly for GM to worry about that definition today, as the bottom level of horsepower for a modern V8 is in the high 300s, which precludes "affordable", in my opinion.
I don't think it's silly at all. The formula is still very relevant and can serve to protect the Camaro from becoming ...you know... a Monte Carlo or Impala coupe.

I also think that both Camaro and Mustang are very affordable in their 300 hp versions.
If not, what would you consider affordable?
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Old 02-26-2010, 08:13 PM   #49
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The latter two bullet points would not seem to go hand-in-hand with the first.
I'm not looking to save weight by removing content from the car. I don't want a stripper Camaro, and neither does 99% of people interested in buying one. I'm talking about replacing steel with aluminum and stuff like that. We heard a while back that the average sale price was $8000 higher than they expected (or something to that effect; I'm sure I have the details wrong). Anyway, assuming that they would have made a workable profit at the price they were expecting, that means there's a big margin to work with. So I say use (some of) it to buy some aluminum/magnesium/carbon or whatever.
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Old 02-27-2010, 02:08 PM   #50
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Any thoughts or input regarding the convertible?
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Old 02-27-2010, 04:14 PM   #51
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Here's a question:

Why no red interior?
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Old 02-27-2010, 09:48 PM   #52
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I doubt this meeting is seriously going to do any good, being past meetings should have cleared the air on these ideas a long time ago. Say you fought to get it built, say you wanted to keep your job.. had too get everyone all wound-up so you could get enough pre-buys to get the Camaro line rolling.

I believe GM has to do some preety good tactics to keep it going (the Camaro),and I do believe sales are the key! to this the possible longevity of this line. Now I'm sure they have plans to up the price on them, I mean look at the sales... thanks to all of you buying. A standard company would be crazy not to ride this, and make some more money in the process. But Im guessing once the sales drop a certain percentage... it maybe gone again.

CAMARO PRICE INCREASE, effective TODAY 1/4/2010


My suggestion, sell them not as a novelty but as a car. I know for a fact I will never walk into a Chevrolet Dealership and see something actaully priced right, haven't yet. Instead Ive been looking at used! cars now... since they been making the scene. Like seeing an SS going for 35K, specially when someone bought it new for 44K.. weird cause I read they have the #1 resale value... go figure.

So thats my grip.... price. And the fact that GM doesnt go nationwide with owners to get feedback... Camaro Disciples? What are the credentials? Ive owned 23 Camaro's in my life time... but Im not a Disciple...


My .02
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Old 02-27-2010, 10:10 PM   #53
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I And the fact that GM doesnt go nationwide with owners to get feedback... Camaro Disciples? What are the credentials?
I have wondered this as well.
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Old 02-27-2010, 11:22 PM   #54
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The request went out on the GM Insiders web site asking for essay submissions as to "why I should be on a Camaro focus group" or something to that effect. Many submitted essays and 12 primary and 3 alternate people were selected. That's how we became focus group members.

Again I ask the question, what about input or questions about the convertible.
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Old 02-28-2010, 08:24 AM   #55
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The request went out on the GM Insiders web site asking for essay submissions as to "why I should be on a Camaro focus group" or something to that effect. Many submitted essays and 12 primary and 3 alternate people were selected. That's how we became focus group members.
.
Whatever happened to GM Insider site? I remember that one day it was there, and the next day I clicked on it and it was gone.
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Old 02-28-2010, 10:14 AM   #56
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OK, here is what I would like to see:

could be applied to the 5th or 6th Gen:

1. An entry level V8 option. Somewhere between the V6 and SS. Think LS but with a 350ish HP/TQ starting (if Chevy can) around $1500 more for that option. Have it be a smaller displacment (5.3L). The reason I would like to see this is I feel there is a market for people who would never consider a V6 Camaro but can not afford a SS which starts at $31,000. This could also be a big seller when the pent-up enthusiast sales begin to dwindle. Anything that could help keep Camaro sales up would be a good thing. Also make this version availible in convertible form as well. Camaro LS V8 Convertible would be a winner.


2. I'm really starting to like the heritage look of the wheels. I wasn't crazy about them at first but they have grown on me. Could they be offered as an option on other trim levels as a cost reducing option. I.E. Heritage wheels -$200.

3. I have no real issues with the interior. I liked the look of it when I had a Camaro to drive for a weekend on R&R.

That is all I can think of at this time.
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Old 02-28-2010, 05:30 PM   #57
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- The SS needs a "Track Pack" option and better handling.
- The Z28 needs to be extreme in all areas of performance.
- Keep prices reasonable.
- Better/more stripes and options from the factory.
- Do anything to save weight.
- Louder and deeper exhaust.
- More leather wrapping in the interior and more quality.
- Make the mufflers smaller.
- Think about adding in a mid-level V8.
- The next Gen should be lighter and a little smaller with better visability.
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Old 02-28-2010, 10:05 PM   #58
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.......... And the fact that GM doesnt go nationwide with owners to get feedback... Camaro Disciples? What are the credentials? Ive owned 23 Camaro's in my life time... but Im not a Disciple...


My .02
I'm really not sure what you meant by that.......

If you're talking about going nationwide to get disciples -- we did - in fact two are Canadian -- 8 men, 7 women - youngest was 19 at the time (as I recall) -- oldest was - well -- older than me by a bit...... Each of these disciples is involved in the Camaro/Firebird Community and one is very active in the Corvette Community. They own Camaros - and in fact some of them own several Camaros. A couple have owned Firebirds and one still does.

Now -- if you're talking about going out 'nationwide' and talking to people -- we do that also.......in many ways.

We've done many, many focus groups with owners of competitive makes as well as Camaro/Firebird/Corvette owners.

Most recently, we've partnered with Motor Trend Autoshows by inviting everyone to various autoshows to get together and talk about all things Camaro. 95% of the time we've spent with enthusiasts at these events have been question and answer. We DO listen. In fact, since January 1, we've had Get-togethers at:

Providence
Salt Lake City
San Jose
Milwaukee
Cleveland
...and very soon in Richmond.

........and for the past 14 years, I've posted on various sites when we would be meeting with Camaro and Firebird Enthusiasts.

Camaros at Carlisle each year.

The Gathering in Atlanta each year.

Camaro Superfest

NEOCC

PNWCC

Ontario Nationals

....to name a few.........

.........and then there are the ".....hey, I'm stayin' at the Marriott in *insert city name here* -- meet me/us in the lounge at *insert time here* and we can talk about all things Camaro/Firebird........." meetings.......


So........yes -- we have gone 'National' -- and I'd put my personal record of travelling all over the nation -- meeting with enthusiasts - -and listening to the customer -- up against any manufacturer representative.

Without listening to the customer, we're bound to fail.

Question: Have I met you at any of these events? And if I haven't, I hope we do meet at one of the events this year.

We do value input - but I caution you that, as much as we want to, we cannot make everyone happy. And because of that, we'll always have those who are upset about something we did -- or didn't -- do with the Camaro.

That's part of working on a 'Legend.'
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Old 03-01-2010, 08:15 AM   #59
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Thats seems all good... Too bad I'm sure none of the people I hang with never heard of this, I know more then a hundred guys with GM performance products. And you know what the majority of them have in common?... no computer or constant access to the internet. So all your traveling seems to have been missing some vital costumers, well actaully you've been missing more feedback in a way. I have asked around about this constantly, and no one I knows heres about any kind of workshops or meetings. Our dealerships arent very active around here as well..

Ive attended only one type of manufactures clinic, Imagine if you would my ZL1 sitting next to a crowd of Mustangs? Well I was there with a good friend and he is a Mustang Owner (69 Boss 429,09 500KR), I thought it was cool that they have this every year! Talking about upgrades and performance issues also. I thought to myself that I never once heard of a GM event... yeah sure GM shows... But not a workshop type. And not like the internet web forums, I didnt get chastise for bringing a GM auto there. They actually were very impressed, and made my car a perfect example of performance.

The disciple thing is kinda weird to me, sounds as if your a gang of some type. Not a gang thats into any good, I mean the name doesnt just say "Hi Im a Camaro enthuisist". Rather says "Give me your wallet suka", and where are the leather jackets?.. LOL!

Well Fbodfather its good to see your out there, trying to gather info on the F-Body and all. Maybe you should advertise your visits some other way then the internet, I myself am not on 24hrs a day and 8 days a week.. yeah I said 8... I generally can be found more in the garage then on the web, cause I find it to be sometimes alot of drama and misinformed. Speaking of which I bettrer go back too looking at pictures and such.

Wish I had more time to goto Camaros at Carlisle, and the CamaroFest thing?

Legend?.... I always refered it to the "Poor man's Corvette"
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Old 03-01-2010, 10:32 AM   #60
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Bitter much? I am personally glad GM selected these particular disciples as a focus group. I know a some of them personally, and couldn't think of anyone better to represent me and my opinions. It is nice to see GM looking at a focus group made up of people like this. These focus groups happen all the time too, in the auto industry. Usually attendees are randomly selected from state vehicle registration databases, and offered $50 or $100 for an hours time. So to see a group of enthusiasts being asked for input can only be a good sign to me, as opposed to the normal focus group of random Joe Blows.

I also think it is important to that the disciples were selected between the 4th and 5th gen. That tells me that the people who are there representing us are "True Fans" of the Camaro.

-Geoff
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