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Old 02-21-2010, 06:04 PM   #1
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Exclamation Camaro Disciples Meeting Again in Detroit in 2010! PROVIDE YOUR INPUT!

This just in, the Camaro Disciples will be meeting for a 3rd time later this year in Detroit!

All Camaro Disciples are also CamaroZ28.Com members!
View the list here:
http://www.camaroz28.com/forums/grou...bers&groupid=3

We have zero details as to what this will be about, but I am sure everyone can take guesses. We do not know if we will be going back to Milford Proving Grounds or somewhere else. Speaking on behalf of all disciples, we are thrilled to be going back again.

One again, let's use this thread as a community to pull together as best as possible and gather thoughts and input on what should be presented during the meeting if given the chance.

Some important things to remember...
  • This meeting isn't supposed to happen until August of 2010. There is plenty of time to think about what it might be covering.
  • This is potentially everyone's chance to shape the future of the Camaro, so make your thoughts realistic, make it honest and make it count.
  • We probably won't be able to ask specific questions and report back with answers because we are under a very strict confidentiality agreement. The point of these meetings are to give details to Chevrolet, not get them!
  • This isn't meant to be any guarantee that any ideas offered can or will be used or even presented. We may not even be have the opportunity to convey these ideas to the people holding the clinic. We may only be able to answer specific questions with direct answers. We just don't know how much freedom we will have with giving input, but this thread is in the hopes that we can collect the popular consensus that might help them shape what the car will be. Here is a thread covering how previous meetings were constructed.
  • As much as Chevrolet would like to have everyone there, that is impossible which is why the Disciples were appointed. The Disciples are not there for just their own opinions, they are the representatives of ALL Camaro enthusiast opinions. Your input helps them get your message to the Camaro team!
  • This thread is to be 100% constructive. Any reply that is disingenuous to this fact will be deleted immediately.
Previous Disciple Meeting Threads:
(1st) Camaro Focus Group Article, Photos and Convertible Test Drive Video!
(2nd) Going back for another Camaro focus group! PROVIDE YOUR INPUT!
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Old 02-21-2010, 07:21 PM   #2
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My input would be to discuss what can and canot be discussed from this and previous meetings. Pleaser refer to Charlie's thread.

I work in the business and am fully aware of NDA's, but it shouldn't be waved around that it's a big deal that these meetings took place if nothing is to be shared with the community. IMO the topic has degraded to "look what we get to do" on this site. Mustang team (and pretty much every program team) has clinics all the time, what's the big deal?
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Old 02-21-2010, 07:28 PM   #3
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I work in the business and am fully aware of NDA's, but it shouldn't be waved around that it's a big deal that these meetings took place if nothing is to be shared with the community.
Two important points from above...

Quote:
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The point of these meetings are to give details to Chevrolet, not get them!

...

The Disciples are not there for just their own opinions, they are the representatives of ALL Camaro enthusiast opinions. Your input helps them get your message to the Camaro team!
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Old 02-21-2010, 07:58 PM   #4
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A few things to address:

1. Handling. Now that the cars have been out for a while, handling performance seems to be an issue. Part of that is the car's weight, but part of it is also how the suspension is set up. There's some aftermarket solutions for this, but it would be nice if it was taken care of at the factory.

2. Accessories. What's the deal with the HUD, blade/dovetail spoiler, "heritage" grille, etc. etc.?

3. Special editions. Take a page from the Mustang's book. The Synergy Green car is ok, but I'd like to see packages similar to the Mustang Bullitt, Mach 1, etc.
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Old 02-21-2010, 08:18 PM   #5
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HUD, forged slugs in "it", good rods, larger vanity mirrors
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Old 02-21-2010, 09:10 PM   #6
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A few things to address:
3. Special editions. Take a page from the Mustang's book. The Synergy Green car is ok, but I'd like to see packages similar to the Mustang Bullitt, Mach 1, etc.
Here's an idea I had a while ago. Instead of (or in addition to) a track pack, offer a "Drag Pack". This would be a factory built, street legal car with an emphasis on drag racing. There are tons and tons of people that are only interested in drag racing.

You could offer it with drag radial tires, suspension optimized for weight transfer and traction, etc. Maybe even a factory trans brake!
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Old 02-22-2010, 10:00 AM   #7
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Fix the handling? What the hell is wrong with the handling? Have any of you put some serious miles on this car that are soooo in love with fixing a great product?? Handling is a compromise...I dont think I could go around ramps onto the highways around Toronto any faster....Havent hit the fences yet...I get so furious when I read rants about the handling of this car...You gotta live with the car first...day in and day out....It's tighter than a drum and better screwed down than any GM product ever and the handling for anything but running at Mosport at 130 MPH is fantastic!! On center feel could be a BIT better....Track packs are great but make it an option cause lots of guys dont want to feel every single expansion joint on every crappy highway in Ontario and Michigan. I got what I expected...a modern GT type 2 door fully competitive with any coupe in the world (many at twice the price) with a V8 and a fabulous chassis . Not too loud and not too harsh.
Here are some suggestions from me. An owner with a real car in the garage who LOVES the handling. LEAVE IT ALONE. give it a track pack for the percentage of guys that want a very harsh ride and rattles galore in 4 yrs.
1/ Better quality plastic in the dash
2/ a "bit" throatier exhaust as stock. But NOT mustang GT loud. My neighborhood wont love me.
3/ a pull down slot in trunk to close the trunk instead of my dirty fingers on my trunk lid
4/ DONT change the shifter. It's fabulous. I love the flat surface on the side...unique and functional.
5/ Slightly smaller steering wheel
6/weight seems to be an issue BUT dont lose the IRS or stifness and tightness of the car so may be tough to lighten much.
7/ Forged pistons? who cares? Vettes base engines dont exactly blow up on every street corner....C'mon....nice bragging rights but do Ford engines last any longer?? not !
8/Make On Star standard on GM performance and high end cars !! talk about a competitive advantage....39 bucks a month after my first year is too much(canada price) . Sorry GM but build it in price somehow.
9/ FIX the brake calipers with weights on them. What I mean is there are thousands of us that have this cobbled together mess on our calipers and we waited 2-3 yrs with deposits on these cars. Why do we not get the updated calipers that are sure to follow?? This is a tragedy and Brembo/GM engineering in Oshawa should be ashamed. I will never stop harping about this. The brakes on a Hyundai Accent dont have friggin weights on them !!!
10/ improve the shifter noise when shifting ...one can really hear it when windows are down..I know there is lots of torque and load but other manufactures have way less noise.
11/ develop a real authentic program to make the car personnal. This could be started with an authentic build sheet mailed to owner after car is picked up and put in his name(many other low cost things could be integrated in this program for Corvette/Camaro). Yeah it's detailed and complicated but gives the car much more originality and specialty feel over just another car.
12/ I am sure you have all seen the "one" bolt that holds the front strut (shows in engine compartment). The new mustang looks so much beefier with the 4 Bolt set up on each strut and the massive brace across both struts. Looks very muscle and may be part of a performance package but I have to admit it looks cool. These braces can be installed without making the car harsh...Heck a Mitsu Lancer GTS (no Evo) has such a brace . Looks more special than a base lancer. To me this is an aestetic thing but of course if it improves the "handling" many rail about that is a good thing.
13/ put a power seat standard on passenger side. man I get more grief from my GF about this. She always says she cant see over dash and I think it has added importance in a car that sightlines are tight and the passenger seat is down low.
14/ Heated seats are not a priority to me. I think they should spend more money on the seat itself. Ever sat in a new Genesis or last Gen Tiburon? Stunning seats for a cheap car....Sit in an EVO with leather....stunning seat...
The seats are nice but they dont feel "special" . I rather pay a few hundred dollars more and have where I sit for the life of the car to feel more personnal, supportive and detailed. It's just OK.
many comments to follow for disciples BUT #1 on your list is NEVER love the
V8 !! I keep hearing rumours of a Turbo 6 in a lighter car next generation....If this is so then I will buy the last V8 off the line and nurse it to my grave.
There is something so special about a big torquy beautifully balanced LS3 or L99 . Please dont lose the 8 !!
Thanks for reading.
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Old 02-22-2010, 10:10 AM   #8
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Fix the handling? What the hell is wrong with the handling?
I think the point is that Camaro has gotten shredded in head-to-head comparos with Mustang in that area. That certainly doesn't do the car any favors when people are cross-shopping them.

Handling can be addressed without giving up a compliant ride.
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Old 02-22-2010, 10:25 AM   #9
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I've driven an SS and compared to my 2005 GTO and 93 Camaro, the new Camaro feels heavy. Power is great. Looks are great. Wife loves the car...which is a big one. But car seems heavy in turns and slow to recover. Makes my 93 feel like a corner carver (has subframe connectors, trailing arms, etc).

For me to buy one it would have to have a different interior and be lighter. I'm a diehard GM fan but still intrigued by the newer Mustang V8 models...

Mind you, I'm holding out for the Z28 anyways.

I also love how easy the GTO is to work on. You open the hood and everything is so simply laid out and easy to work on. Even things like changing the resistor module for the blower fan...10 min job. I did headers in about 3 hrs with air tools.

I'd like to see that with the Camaro.
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Old 02-22-2010, 11:15 AM   #10
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Great suggestions and comments please keep them coming. One in particular I like is the suggestion of a pull down strap for the trunk lid. I grab the bow tie and pull the lid down with that, the strap would be a much better method! I have been driving my SS for 9 months now and love it. I think it handles great but I am not a racer. Have no fear several of the desciples are so your voices will be heard if the opportunity arises. I love my heated seats and will never own another car without them . I love my ambient lighting however, I wish the dim/birght control worked independently from the dash gauges. If I have my door panels turned up all the way the gauges are blinding. Skip shif...I just don't get it. I would have liked to had XM free for the first year like Onstar. Memory driver seat, this was not a big deal for me when discussed in the previous focus group meetings. But when I share the car with my husband or take it in for service it takes me a little while to get it back just right again, it would be nice to have but not a deal breaker though.
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Old 02-22-2010, 11:15 AM   #11
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1. Fix the handling/understeer problem.

2. Offer more exterior color choices, in particular, bring back Aqua Blue Metallic for the SS and also add a Dark Green Metallic to the mix.

3. Offer additional color/material choices for the interior. Example, I'd love to be able to order a white leather with houndstooth inserts with the 2012 Convertible SS. (IOM of course would be the exterior choice.)

4. Offer more dealer installed accessories. For one, what if you could order a carbon fiber hood and rear deck lid? (Painted to match the exterior color choice of course.)

Lastly, I know people are voicing how much they hate the interior. I for one actually love it, I just want more color/material choices.

And finally, lose the flippin' mail-slot on the SS. It makes a beautiful front fascia look like ***.
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Old 02-22-2010, 11:33 AM   #12
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Fix the handling? What the hell is wrong with the handling?
Nothing. Just a few people who took a wishy-washy car rag article and misconstrued it to make it seem like the Camaro handles poorly. There was a huge thread about it not too long ago. Their whole argument was based from an article in a car mag that said it had some understeer. However, this same magazine not just a month earlier praised its handling.


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I think the point is that Camaro has gotten shredded in head-to-head comparos with Mustang in that area. That certainly doesn't do the car any favors when people are cross-shopping them.
The only thing that I have read is that the Mustang pulled a slightly higher G on the skidpad. Everything else had Camaro on top. Even the dreaded article mentioned above had the Camaro at ~6 seconds a lap faster than the track pack equipped Mustang. Hardly a shredding.

What is more realistic is that the Camaro handles great but the Mustang may be slightly better. Regardless they both perform well enough for it to boil down to a driver's race.

With that being said I don't think drivetrain and suspension need any work. The focus of any improvement if any needs to be put into the interior. Aesthetically and ergonomically inefficient for my liking. Steering wheel doesn't have a comfortable spot on it. Gauges down by my knees are a gimmik at best. HVAC controls look like a video game controller. Round gauges in square pods do not flow well. The list goes on and on.
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Old 02-22-2010, 11:42 AM   #13
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I'm kind of surprised that no one has brought up price yet, it seemed to be a big issue pre-march 2009. I'd really like to see some agressive lease rates on the Camaro come 2011 Mustang time.

Also for Skip-Shift, if there could be a On / Off Button for that. Just like Traction Controll.

And as always it'd be nice if Handling (wieght, maybe suspension tweeks) were revised a bit.
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Old 02-22-2010, 12:04 PM   #14
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Nothing. Just a few people who took a wishy-washy car rag article and misconstrued it to make it seem like the Camaro handles poorly.
I don't mean to beat a dead horse here, but one of those articles (Car & Driver? I don't remember) had professionals in both Camaro and Mustang and Camaro was described as "not fun" near the limits and I believe the same guy even said he couldn't wait to get out of Camaro and back into Mustang. That has to sting.

Whatever advantage Camaro has over Mustang on twisty tracks is not in the twisties, it's on the straights where it takes advantage of a 100+ horsepower advantage. That's virtually gone in 2011.
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Old 02-22-2010, 02:07 PM   #15
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Keep those comments coming....we're taking notes!
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