Chevycobb

If you want to spend 50K on a corvette....buy used. You can find AWESOME deals on used corvettes(Z06 too )

Z284ever

Well, maybe an all new sporty coupe based on Delta (Cruze) or Gamma (Aveo). Of course that would necessitate FWD. That, or get a really popular version of a mid $20K Camaro for the 20 somethings to buy.

graham

What's it going to represent in the total fleet, 10% of total sales?

I don't think it's an issue.

Put the car out there and there will be 5000-8000 that will buy one.

The rest of us can settle for the 30K SS and do our own power work

HAZ-Matt

This isn't exactly a Corvette competitor. As far as is it good for the brand, as long as it delivers $50,000 worth of goods it is fine. I don't see the problem with a low production model like this that has extreme horsepower as long as they can sell it profitably and make the small number of Camaro enthusiasts (with that I mean relative to the broader Camaro base) that can afford it and desire this type of halo vehicle to buy it. Now if the question is should Camaro only be a limited production $50,000 car then that would be bad, obviously. But as a full line with a slightly ridiculous model at the top for collectors, it is fine.

Would I buy one? Nope, but then again there are a lot of cars I wouldn't buy but that doesn't change the fact that there are people that would buy them. If it said Firebird on it then that might be a different discussion, but if I were to buy a Camaro, I wouldn't be interested in a supermaro halo vehicle since I am not a Camaro enthusiast as much as I am a Corvette and Firebird enthusiast. I could however see myself buying something more akin to a Camaro version of the Boss if I wanted a newer performance car. That may be a different discussion altogether, but I don't think that a $50,000 Camaro should preclude them from offering a performance upgrade package for an SS (or even the LT) that is more track oriented than their standard counterparts - which nobody can seriously argue are more track / performance oriented than street / cruising and every day livability.

JasonD

This should be in your first post then. Few are going to even see what "deeper meaning" you are trying to get before voting NO. People are voting thinking of their wallet, not the Camaro as a "brand", and they are not thinking Z28 since it is not even in the title. You don't need a poll to predict the answers the way things are worded (or not worded) in your first post.

No one buys something because the cost is "good". People buy things because the value is good.

Here's a poll on what I am getting at...
$50 grand for a Camaro Z28. Is that a good VALUE?

Z284ever

Yeah, but I'm not asking that. My question does not really concern value. It concerns whether it's a "good thing" to move the Camaro brand away from it's traditional demographic roots. I think you're interpreting my question in a completely different way than I intended Jason.

JasonD

There is no way in hell people are going to think of this when reading the thread title, poll title, or the first post of the thread since there is nothing in any one of those three that explains this.

I didn't, but there is no question that others are. Since there is no real explanation of the poll, people are interpreting it their own way as a result. The poll is really useless because it is so wide open to interpretation.

Z284ever

Okey-dokey, I just edited the first post. Maybe that makes it clearer.

JasonD

Bait and switch? There's already 40 votes in that cannot be changed so it really doesn't make it any more accurate.

Z284ever

Welp, I don't think the poll is as important as the discussion is on this topic. Plus I honestly feel, that as you did, most understood my question.

Z284ever

I think that I'm less concerned about the addition of an expensive range topping Camaro as I am about the availability of an interesting entry level performance model.

Currently, Camaro starts at $22,680 for a base LS and then requires about an $8500 premium for the next performance level step-up, (1SS). Could there be something fun with street cred in between? Something which could grasp the attention of more youthful buyers and help protect the future buyer base of the Camaro brand? Maybe a cheaper V8 version is out of the question nowadays. Okay.
But how about some sort of "Brake Performance Package" for the base V6 LS? Let's say for an additional $1200-$1500 you could get the 1SS suspension and Brembos as an option package on the LS. Maybe add some other bling, like a freer flowing airbox, or gearing or something. For about $24K you'd have a pretty serious car which would get some attention. Maybe ALOT of attention. Bottom line is to retain entry level performance enthusiasts.


I'd also support a Camaro Boss competitor. What should they call it?

JasonD

Okay then. Since the poll is indeed inaccurate, I have stripped it from the thread so that people can continue your discussion as you actually intended without additional confusion.

And no, I didn't understand the question at all. This is why I asked about it in my previous posts.

Chewbacca

*shrug* I did.

In fact, it was the only thing I thought of after reading the thread title.

guionM

Couple of issues I have here.

First:

I don't see how you get that Camaro is moving up the demographic ladder. Which demographic ladder is it supposedly moving up?

Is is age? The 4th gen Camaro's medial age buyer was about 40. LS1 buyers were in the mid 40s. To date, and Scott or someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that age demographic has dropped at least 5 years.

Is it income? Again, most new Camaro buyers have always been those who have gotten secure in their job, and have a bit of money to be more expressive in their car purchases. NEW Camaro (and Mustang) buyers have never been the same people who bought Cobalts, Cavaliers, Novas, & Vegas... the new cars actually bought by young people buying their 1st new car.

Second:

The notion that as the performance Camaro moves up the price ladder in it's performance base moves it from it's traditional buyers is ludicrous. Again, here's why.

For starters, the performance Camaro is still the SS. This new Z28 is a low production, high content performance car. It isn't marketed to us mere mortals any more than the ZR1 is marketed to regular Corvette buyers.

Performance Camaros have traditionally been (outside of the Corvette) almost the priciest cars in Chevrolet showrooms. This was especially true when the 3rd gen Z28s came out and again reinforced with the IROC Z. The current SS worth the price. The V6 Camaro is an absolute steal.

Also, traditional Camaro buyers buy regular Camaros. Performance enthusiasts buy performance Camaros. Those Camaro mperformance enthusiasts with money and wanting something more special and rare will buy Z28s.


This whole notion that simply because a limited production version of a Camaro is going for $50,000 that Camaro is somehow moving away from it's traditional base is pretty far fetched.

Although you've made your view on the price very well known, I noticed that you haven't said a single thing about the fact that this Camaro has 550+ horsepower, has substantial suspension upgrades, and like the Shelby GT500, will come pretty much loaded.

Do you expect a car like this to be given away to anyone and everyone for the price of an SS?

Or do you feel that the Z28 should not have this amount of power and equptment, and should be sold for less.... say about $35-40,000?



Bit of trivia for everyone to help keep the Performance-versus-value idea in perspective.

A. The current V6 Camaro will our accelerate the original Z28 (and the current V6 Mustang will embarass the original Boss Mustangs).

B. The current Camaro SS has more horsepower than the Corvette did just 5 years ago, and is by far the quickest factory Camaro ever made. Over at Ford, the new $31K 5.0 Mustang is quicker than the stock $32K Terminator Cobra was.... adjust for inflation and that puts the Terminator at about $40K today or the 5.0 at about $25K back then.

C. 500 horsepower was called (and viewed) as insanity just a few years ago. Yet here we are putting that much power into a Camaro for about the price of a normally optioned (and less powerful) Corvette.

Z284ever

I mean price wise, and all that that encompasses, regarding age, etc. You can look over my reply to Matt if you want, but the danger as I see it, is that Camaro is straying further and further from it's traditional youth and youth oriented buyer. When the price of admission for an interesting or performance version starts in the low $30K's, you have restricted yourself from an important segment. Those are the people who you'd hope would be buying GM products for the next 50 years. Maybe Camaro is the product to "hook" them. It has played that role for decades.

Like I said in the other post, it doesn't have to be a V8, since that wouldn't be realistic. But if not a V8 it needs to be something interesting, desirable and affordable.